Discussed in an association meeting last night...

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've attended some very high quality camps and I still don't peek at a whole bunch of possible 3's taken outside of my PCA. I know which types of situations may need my help and which don't.

I agree, you worded it better. Not every situation & depending on your crew, maybe not at all.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And I think maybe you should lose this "99" reference you use frequently. Kind of insulting, demeaning, and arrogant to official who don't agree with everyone of your philosophies.

Based on your posting history I surmise you are being exposed to a lot of pro philosophy (NBA/D-League/semi-pros). But the philosophies and teachings for those leagues don't always translate to college and high school ball.

Just MHO.

Okay, even though I still get assigned as U2 on games thats my last time using 99 here.
But these arent MY philosophies, to be honest the guys I learn from dont like philosophies they say to stay away from them & call the game by the book.

Are there differences in rules, court coverage & approved signals? Yes but as long as the rim is 10' & the FT line is 15' & there are boundary lines & there are 5 players on each team at each level... Basketball is Basketball man!

I see nothing wrong with having the mindset of the best to do it & applying practices at the level one currently works.

Originally Posted by Welpe

For what it's worth, one of the most highly regarded camps in this area is high school oriented I don't know if that necessarily speaks to the quality of the ball here but you are a nobody in the chapter until you've gone to one of these camps.

Yeah, we have those too
And once is suffice... no video, no can do! If they choose not to use me, trust, someone else will.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I filled in with a guy I never met last year. His eyes never left the ball. I caught this on the first halfcourt set. I found myself working off-ball even when the ball was in my primary. I was very uncomfortable all night..

Oh okay, so others see it too! Thats all Im saying it depends on who you're with. It doesnt take many trips up & down to see what you need to do to assist a particular crew in being the most successful team of the 3.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's why I'm happy that we have "regular" partners here and I work a large portion of my games with the same 2-3 people.

Lucky guy!!!

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Was this to me? If so, my response is that in 2 man, as lead, I've got enough to worry about on 99% of the shots in his 3 pt primary (not talking about the plays that are close to my primary) that I'm not going to be able to get a peak. I have to trust my partner on this one. If I can't trust him on a 3 point shot, there are going to be some big issues.

I hear ya Snaqs, its quite the challenge sometimes. But thats why we do what we do, right? I trust all my partners until they give me reason not to. Had 2 person 3 nights in a row, luckily all with quality guys! So in these cases I didnt have to sneak-a-peak often. Like most of what we do, it all depends.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't allow coaches to go off on me like this, either. Do you start watching for travels in your partner's primary just because a defensive coach went off on you for missing one?

If I'm the T, I watch for travels in my partners primary (which is my secondary) throughout the contest. Believe it or not the post entry play is a 3 referee play.
L has illegal contact by offense & defense.
T has offensive feet.
C is prepared for the curl while watching the hook.

Yup all while officiating the players in their primary TOO. Multi-tasking is a great quality for officials to have.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tref

If I'm the T, I watch for travels in my partners primary (which is my secondary) throughout the contest. Believe it or not the post entry play is a 3 referee play.
L has illegal contact by offense & defense.
T has offensive feet.
C is prepared for the curl while watching the hook.

Yup all while officiating the players in their primary TOO. Multi-tasking is a great quality for officials to have.

This is a great example, BTW. The L sometimes has the absolute worst chance to get a travel in the post and the T can be a huge help there.

[tref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is a great example, BTW. The L sometimes has the absolute worst chance to get a travel in the post and the T can be a huge help there.

L is too close to the play, T has the great open look. And some still get mad because you called a travel "in front" of them. Oh boy! Its 2012 people & the game has changed.

Originally Posted by Smitty

I see the smiley, but I meant the 3-pt shot specifically - coming in and changing it to a 2 if you see a foot on the line.

I know exactly what you meant, pregame determines how we do it.
Some people want you to come in & tell them you had a foot on the line so they can change it, others say if you're 100 change it yourself right then & there to keep the game moving.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

L is too close to the play, T has the great open look. And some still get mad because you called a travel "in front" of them. Oh boy! Its 2012 people & the game has changed.

I guess I didn't realize this was new; it's certainly being taught to us lowly high school officials; has been for years. And in this situation, I'm talking about you as L peaking across the paint to a player on the 3 pt line to see if he's traveling (the real equivalent to L catching a 3 pt shot on the opposite elbow).

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

it's certainly being taught to us lowly high school officials)

Come on Snaqs, the largest part of my schedule is HS games. Lets not go there.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And in this situation, I'm talking about you as L peaking across the paint to a player on the 3 pt line to see if he's traveling (the real equivalent to L catching a 3 pt shot on the opposite elbow).

I've already provided the example of calling a long distance travel. Its from T to L not L to T/C outside the 3 point line.
FTR, if I'm peeking across the paint I should be moving my feet over there.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Come on Snaqs, the largest part of my schedule is HS games. Lets not go there.

I was referring to your denigration of high school camps.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I was referring to your denigration of high school camps.

Originally Posted by Welpe

For what it's worth, one of the most highly regarded camps in this area is high school oriented I don't know if that necessarily speaks to the quality of the ball here but you are a nobody in the chapter until you've gone to one of these camps.

Originally Posted by tref

Yeah, we have those too
And once is suffice... no video, no can do! If they choose not to use me, trust, someone else will.

Thats what I was referring to.
Unless its a tryout situation, I dont attend any college camps without video.
On a scale from 1-10 the teaching provided by clinicians coming onto the court at t/o & halftime saying this & that is a 4, maybe. Going in to review the film after the game, now thats where the real learning takes place. I mean we are supposed to be going to camp to learn & improve, right. So I invest my hard earned money where I get the bang for my buck.

[Raymond]

If I have a "weak/shouldn't be there/only for the $$$/warm body/etc" partner I'm only extending to get assault/batteries and only conversing if I think a rule is being misapplied or an "on the floor" should be changed to a shooting foul. Otherwise both coaches are going to have to live with the missed travels, missed handchecks, phantom "over the back" and "reaching" fouls, and confusing mechanics. Then they can call the assignor and submit the appropriate report.

If the assignor is willing to put that official in that game then the assignor can answer all the complaints. Or maybe the assignor is thinking the game is getting the quality of official it deserves.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If I have a "weak/shouldn't be there/only for the $$$/warm body/etc" partner I'm only extending to get assault/batteries and only conversing if I think a rule is being misapplied or an "on the floor" should be changed to a shooting foul. Otherwise both coaches are going to have to live with the missed travels, missed handchecks, phantom "over the back" and "reaching" fouls, and confusing mechanics. Then they can call the assignor and submit the appropriate report.

If the assignor is willing to put that official in that game then the assignor can answer all the complaints. Or maybe the assignor is thinking the game is getting the quality of official it deserves.

I get that. A ball-watcher is going to lead to an assault-and-battery though, especially in higher level games. I'm not going to call the whole floor, but I know I'm going to have to extend my look in those situations.

Travels? Garden variety fouls? I'm with you. If I try to work the whole game, I'll be just as bad as my partner. Well, maybe not.