Kid quits team during game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I understand "the intent of the rule" argument.

While this situation will probably never happen to any of us, it's certainly fostered some good discussion.

What I keep getting hung up on, though, is the resumption of play. We've theorized getting a sub, putting the ball down and starting to count, etc.

While this exact situation is not necessarily covered in the rules/cases, I'm still inclined to use the "leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason" reference to give a T. That way, we're at least following the rules to some extent.

I don't have my books in front of me, but I suppose what could follow, if the kid won't come back on the floor, is a DOG warning? I don't know, I'm just trying to come up with a logical way to continue the game.

And these discussions are wonderful. It gets us to think about what we would do and when it does happen we have some idea of what our thinking will be.

With all that being said, I cannot think of a single assignor I work for that would not be OK with me or any other official not calling a T for the "leaving the court" portion of the rule. As I said before, I can already realistically see a T for removing the jersey depending on when it took place. But to compound that with a T or any other very suspect penalty, I cannot see me using not using common sense. And I am also comfortable that my experience would be respected as well if I choose not to do so. And until the NF puts out a ruling or the IHSA puts out a ruling suggesting otherwise, I will not penalize such an action for a kid that is quitting the team even in a spectacular way.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So he has to lie to you when there is evidence the player clearly walked out?



Actually there is. That is why we have 2-3 in the first place. Nothing in the rule covers what happens if a player refuses to play the game.



So you ejected a would do or say nothing, but walked off the field? Not sure you have rules support if that is the case where a kid just walks off the field and never comes back. Of course if he does something to get ejected that is different. But we have a kid that leaving the game and court and we have an idea why. I can sleep well at night knowing I just got a sub and we moved on.

Peace

Technically, I ejected him for unsporting behavior in the form of throwing equipment.

I just don't agree that we don't have rules covering a player refusing to play. We have a rule for not providing the free thrower. Use it.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by Welpe

You can't put the ball down / use the RPP (same this in this situation) because the freethrows are not following a timeout or intermission. Normally if a team refuses to provide a shooter in this case, it's a T to the player if he refuses.

Could you point me to the rule here so I can find it easier later?? Seems like this may be the most logical way to start the process.

In this situation, with any luck in our corner, the T would be the kid's 5th, and then he'd be disqualified, his sub would shoot, and away we go.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Could you point me to the rule here so I can find it easier later?? Seems like this may be the most logical way to start the process.

In this situation, with any luck in our corner, the T would be the kid's 5th, and then he'd be disqualified, his sub would shoot, and away we go.

You just don't need all this. The rules weren't written to cover this situation, they were written to address sportsmanship issues. It's just not covered. Use 2-3, hell you can even call a T using 2-3 if you feel the need.

Just bring the sub in to shoot and play on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Technically, I ejected him for unsporting behavior in the form of throwing equipment.

I just don't agree that we don't have rules covering a player refusing to play. We have a rule for not providing the free thrower. Use it.

Even in the dugout you are doing that? I know this is a different sport and I have not picked up a baseball rulebook in months, but I do not see any rules support if they do this outside of the field.

And I disagree with you that the rule applies to this situation at all. So we will just have to disagree on this.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Technically, I ejected him for unsporting behavior in the form of throwing equipment.

I just don't agree that we don't have rules covering a player refusing to play. We have a rule for not providing the free thrower. Use it.

Why? Coach is willing to provide one. There's no need to follow some legalistic rule gymnastics to get there when the rules weren't written for this situation.

The kid is no longer on the team, so use a shooter who is.

This is really, in the end, no different than a coach deciding to play with 4 because his 5th player is suspended.

We had a situation last weekend, H30 gets a T in the freshman game. Didn't play again and was taken out of the following JV game. If the coach had been down to 5 players, incluing 30, and he had told me at the time that #30 was suspended for getting the T, I would have allowed him to play with 4.

We don't decide who's on the team, the coach does.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Could you point me to the rule here so I can find it easier later?? Seems like this may be the most logical way to start the process.

8-1-2 clearly says, "Following a time-out or intermission....."

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

In this situation, with any luck in our corner, the T would be the kid's 5th, and then he'd be disqualified, his sub would shoot, and away we go.

It never happens that cleanly.

Peace

[Tim C]

There are sure some OOO's here.

T

[Welpe]

Tee must've noticed the baseball reference.

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by tim c

there are sure some ooo's here.

T

+1 :d

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Tim C

There are sure some OOO's here.

T

I was wondering when someone was going to say this.

Peace

[BillyMac]

9-3-3: A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Here's a technical foul reference that won't work:

10-3-2: A player shall not: Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

This will work:

10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put inplay.
c. The free thrower fails to be in the free-throw semicircle when the official is ready to administer the free throw unless the resumption-of-play procedure is in effect following a time-out or intermission.

So will this:

10-3-6: A player shall not:
h. Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.
i. Leave the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust or intimidation.

Pick your poison.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9-3-3: A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Here's a technical foul reference that won't work:

10-3-2: A player shall not: Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

This will work:

10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put inplay.
c. The free thrower fails to be in the free-throw semicircle when the official is ready to administer the free throw unless the resumption-of-play procedure is in effect following a time-out or intermission.

So will this:

10-3-6: A player shall not:
h. Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.
i. Leave the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust or intimidation.

Pick your poison.

So the best answer is two technicals to the player if necessary for ejection, foul shots by the sub with the lanes cleared, then 4 free throws by the other team with the lanes cleared and then ball at mid court. Sound about right?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So the best answer is two technicals to the player if necessary for ejection, foul shots by the sub with the lanes cleared, then 4 free throws by the other team with the lanes cleared and then ball at mid court. Sound about right?

Two technicals are not necessary for ejection.

And ejection is not necessary for the situation.

[Raymond]

Just charge the kid with a flagrant T which would cause an automatic ejection and you won't have to worry about whether he should be forced to shoot his free throws.