Judging a "judgement" call

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just to clarify, are you expected to watch your area and your partners' areas to make sure they don't kick a rule?

Depends.

Suppose the ball is in your area and it's contested. Then, your partner blows the whistle and signals "illegal screen." You later find out he called it for "moving while setting a screen, even though there was no contact." You (likely) won't get in trouble for not helping out here.

But, in the OP, it's reasonable to have an opinion on the play, so it's reasonable to try to verify the call / rule.

[bainsey]

Oh, BTW...

There's only one "e" in "judgment."

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Oh, BTW...

There's only one "e" in "judgment."

This is also a when in Rome thing...

judgement

[Adam]

What a potatoe head.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What a potatoe head.

LOL!!! I was thinking the same thing. Scary!!!!

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Well that's your opinion and I think yours is incorrect.



Here's where you start running into trouble when you start telling the coach your partner is wrong. What do you gain by that? That's throwing your partner under the bus and is completely unecessary.



Great attitude.

Welpe, what, in your opinion, is required to not "throw your partner under the bus?" It seems to me that anything short of telling the coach that grabbing your own rebound is travelling is, by your definition, throwing your partner under the bus.

Telling the coach what a rule is after it's been misapplied doesn't throw your partner under the bus; he put himself there all on his own.

A similar situation happened in my game last night. I was lead and watching play in the post when the ball got knocked loose around the top of the key. I see it hit A2 in the leg in the front court and it's recovered by A3 in the backcourt. Given that it was loose, I doubted B has established team control, so I expected the backcourt call, but it didn't come.

I ended up in front of B's coach shortly after and he wanted to know why why the call wasn't made. I told him it wasn't my call and he'd have to ask my partner but I assumed my partner determined they had gained team control.

We discussed the play at halftime, and it turned out he had the rule wrong, thinking any touch by B during the loose ball negated the backcourt violation.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm not sure what you disagreed with - you appear to have been agreeing with me.

helps to read carefully

ha ha.............let's not discuss this now. How about at the half?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Welpe, what, in your opinion, is required to not "throw your partner under the bus?" It seems to me that anything short of telling the coach that grabbing your own rebound is travelling is, by your definition, throwing your partner under the bus.

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation because you're giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. If we are 100% sure, we should go in and get it right with our partner before the game is resumed. Telling a coach your partner was wrong doesn't mollify the situation, it exacerbates it.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation.

huh???

So the coach KNOWS the rule and that your partner got it wrong and asks you. What do you say or do? give him a stupid blank look?

What's wrong with, "if that's what he said, I think he misapplied the rule, I'll discuss this with him first chance I get."

Grow up man. Your partner screwed up and you're not going out of your way to put him in the spotlight. He then makes it worse by continuing to defend his position.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by deecee

Grow up man.

I am grown, thank you. I don't need you addressing me as a child.

The less we say to a coach, the better. When you start telling coaches your partner is wrong, you end up down a slippery slope that ends with the coach jumping both of you for screwing up. As I originally said, I prefer not to give the coaches any thing extra to throw at us. There is a way to deal with a coach that doesn't result in emasculating your partner completely (even if he's already started for himself). I still stand by that.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation because you're giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. If we are 100% sure, we should go in and get it right with our partner before the game is resumed. Telling a coach your partner was wrong doesn't mollify the situation, it exacerbates it.

+1

If we think our partner has misapplied a rule and a brief conversation can correct it then I think we should try to do that.

If, however, in the case of the OP we think our partner misapplied a rule but let it go b/c we arent sure of exactly what they called then I don't think it's a good idea to tell the coach your partner was wrong. That opens up a can of worms that I have seen get REALLY ugly. it undermines your partner, undermines you as a crew, and gives the coach ammo for the rest of the game and beyond.

You can let the coach know that he has a correct interpretation of the rule and let him know you will discuss it with your partner at half time or after the game. In the case of the OP, I'm not going to have a conversation with the Coach about what he and my partner discussed or my partner's interp of the rule right then and there. There is too much that could get lost in translation.

I think you either try to correct it when it happens or live with call, discuss it in the lockerroom, and give the official who misapplied the rule the opportunity to man up and tell the coach he kicked it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

huh???

So the coach KNOWS the rule and that your partner got it wrong and asks you. What do you say or do? give him a stupid blank look?

What's wrong with, "if that's what he said, I think he misapplied the rule, I'll discuss this with him first chance I get."

Grow up man. Your partner screwed up and you're not going out of your way to put him in the spotlight. He then makes it worse by continuing to defend his position.

Why even participate? What purpose does it serve other than making you look better at your partner's expense?

[Welpe]

Well said, VaTerp, I agree completely.

Snaqs, IMO it falls into the same category as being a shoulder to cry on for the coach after your partner whacks him.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation because you're giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. If we are 100% sure, we should go in and get it right with our partner before the game is resumed. Telling a coach your partner was wrong doesn't mollify the situation, it exacerbates it.

I'm officiating the game. In this instance, I'm doing my best to ignore him without being dismissive. Timeout and I have other duties to attend to, I'm near him and I'm moving away for a better angle or closing down. I'm having very little, if anything to say to him.

Stay away.

[just another ref]

I have two thoughts on the OP:

If you are working a varsity game with a partner who doesn't know this rule, chances are there were other problems as well.

It would have to be something really blatant before I would stop the game to question my partner's traveling call.