Wagner @ Santa Clara last shot

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Whether it swishes or bounces on the rim 10 times shouldn't matter.

That was not my point.

Connect the dots (point of release ---> front of rim). That line of flight "seems" to not pass over the backboard.

If it would have been a "swish" that line would seem to pass over the backboard.

[Camron Rust]

Legal shot.

The shot went up roughly inline with the edge of the board (as viewed by the camera) and came down on a line in front of the edge of the board (as viewed by the camera). That means that the ball, at it's peak, short of a massive wind gust to move it, was (or at least most of the ball was) outside the corner of the board.

Of course, there is the issue of whether the rule means it is a violation if part of the ball, the center of the ball, or the whole ball passes over the top. If it were any part of the ball, I'd think this would be a violation (I think some of the ball probably did clip the space above the backboard) but if it were the center of the ball or the whole ball, no violation.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Legal shot.

The shot went up roughly inline with the edge of the board (as viewed by the camera) and came down on a line in front of the edge of the board (as viewed by the camera). That means that the ball, at it's peak, short of a massive wind gust to move it, was in outside the corner of the board.

Of course, there is the issue of whether the rule means it is a violation if part of the ball, the center of the ball, or the whole ball passes over the top. If it were any part of the ball, I'd think this would be a violation (I think some of the ball probably did clip the space above the backboard) but if it were the center of the ball or the whole ball, no violation.

As discussed back in this thread, I still think it was most likely a violation. And post #19 on that thread has the NCAA rule reference regarding "any part" of the ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

As discussed back in this thread, I still think it was most likely a violation. And post #19 on that thread has the NCAA rule reference regarding "any part" of the ball.

True, regarding the NCAA rule, but the NFHS rule is silent on that element (which is what I was thinking about with that comment).

Still, it is not clear that any of the ball crossed over the backboard....it was certainly close, but not certain by anything we can see for sure in this video....and if it is uncertain, I'm not calling it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

True, regarding the NCAA rule, but the NFHS rule is silent on that element (which is what I was thinking about with that comment).

Still, it is not clear that any of the ball crossed over the backboard....it was certainly close, but not certain by anything we can see for sure in this video....and if it is uncertain, I'm not calling it.

I wouldn't kill the shot unless I was 100% certain it went over the board. I'm not that certain watching the video. So count it. It was a great shot.

Quite frankly, I thought this was great awareness by the C cause who would expect that shot to go in?

[JugglingReferee]

When calculating the two endpoints along the end line where a shot could be legal, one matches the endpoint closest to the corner with the ball hitting the flange, and the endpoint furthest from the corner with the ball hitting the front of the rim.

My math shows that the endpoint furthest from the corner is about 165" from the corner. This is 13' 9" from the corner, or 11' 3" from the midpoint of the end line. This is 15" further from the corner than the midpoint of the top/bottom half of the end line. It is also 8' 3" outside the edge of the backboard. It is also 5' 3" outside the key.

Does any of that change your opinion of the shot?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

When calculating the two endpoints along the end line where a shot could be legal, one matches the endpoint closest to the corner with the ball hitting the flange, and the endpoint furthest from the corner with the ball hitting the front of the rim.

My math shows that the endpoint furthest from the corner is about 165" from the corner. This is 13' 9" from the corner, or 11' 3" from the midpoint of the end line. This is 15" further from the corner than the midpoint of the top/bottom half of the end line. It is also 8' 3" outside the edge of the backboard. It is also 5' 3" outside the key.

Does any of that change your opinion of the shot?

I have two math degrees and I have no clue WTF you're talking about.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

When calculating the two endpoints along the end line where a shot could be legal, one matches the endpoint closest to the corner with the ball hitting the flange, and the endpoint furthest from the corner with the ball hitting the front of the rim.

My math shows that the endpoint furthest from the corner is about 165" from the corner. This is 13' 9" from the corner, or 11' 3" from the midpoint of the end line. This is 15" further from the corner than the midpoint of the top/bottom half of the end line. It is also 8' 3" outside the edge of the backboard. It is also 5' 3" outside the key.

Does any of that change your opinion of the shot?

My head hurts, but I think i understand, and agree that - geometrically speaking - the ball broke the plane. But unless the C pulled out his slide rule, this would be too close to call. The more I think about it, this would be more convincing from the Lead (ala the official in the Larry Bird shot).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There is the issue of whether the rule means it is a violation if part of the ball, the center of the ball, or the whole ball passes over the top.

Hey Camron Rust. Take this over to the soccer Forum.