Uncalled Cheap Shots

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He can make any request off the court he likes. He cannot do that in the middle of the game or in a way that disrupts the game.

Peace

Sure he can. He can kick the kid off the team any time he wishes....even in the middle of the game. As game management, he can have the game stopped and forfeit it. You can certainly pull exception cases out where the AD has no authority but that would be the extreme exception, not the norm. If not the AD, then the Principal. Someone, whoever it might be, at the gym is in charge of the facility and the event and can shut it down.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sure he can. He can kick the kid off the team any time he wishes....even in the middle of the game. As game management, he can have the game stopped and forfeit it. You can certainly pull exception cases out where the AD has no authority but that would be the extreme exception, not the norm. If not the AD, then the Principal. Someone, whoever it might be, at the gym is in charge of the facility and the event and can shut it down.

I've run into one or two ADs who thought they could tell the officials how to call the game. That's not going to happen, but as mentioned the AD could stop the contest and choose to forfeit. I certainly wouldn't try to fight that -- I'd simply file the appropriate report with the commissioner and with the state office.

[Rich]

I'd like to see the video of the entire game.

But it's telling to me that we have all of those hard fouls and not a single official closes distance to provide a presence in the middle of the players to prevent any retaliation.

Jeff mentioned it earlier -- these officials simply don't seem to have any awareness.

A couple of comments on particular fouls -- my comments earlier I'm pretty happy with, but to clarify:

#2 would not be considered intentional ever. Stupid? Yes. It's not even close to being an intentional foul *even with* the other fouls to put it in context.

#5 is flagrant. Yes, the kid's momentum provides a lot of what puts him on the ground, but it's the blatant disregard for the opponent that causes that, IMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sure he can. He can kick the kid off the team any time he wishes....even in the middle of the game. As game management, he can have the game stopped and forfeit it. You can certainly pull exception cases out where the AD has no authority but that would be the extreme exception, not the norm. If not the AD, then the Principal. Someone, whoever it might be, at the gym is in charge of the facility and the event and can shut it down.

According to my state, officials are the authority over the contest, not ADs, Principal, Superintendent or Parent. Now if they do not want to play a game, that is up to them. It would be noted and a Special Report would be filed with the IHSA and they would deal with it from there. And based on the information they can take whatever action they choose. I would not fight them, but it would not go unreported. Because it might be possible that they have been a problem again and they could put their membership or participation up in the air. Just like if I were to overstep my authority I could suffer the same consequences. But when we are on the court in this state, we are in charge of the contest. If that is not the way it is there, then so be it.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

According to my state, officials are the authority over the contest, not ADs, Principal, Superintendent or Parent. Now if they do not want to play a game, that is up to them. It would be noted and a Special Report would be filed with the IHSA and they would deal with it from there. And based on the information they can take whatever action they choose. I would not fight them, but it would not go unreported. Because it might be possible that they have been a problem again and they could put their membership or participation up in the air. Just like if I were to overstep my authority I could suffer the same consequences. But when we are on the court in this state, we are in charge of the contest. If that is not the way it is there, then so be it.

Peace

Of course officials are the authority over the contest...that's not what Camron said. He said the Principal or AD are the authority over the facility and the school. If the Principal or AD calls you over to the table and says "This game is over" then the game is over - there's nothing you can do about it. You can file reports and call assignors afterwards, but the game is over when they say so.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Of course officials are the authority over the contest...that's not what Camron said. He said the Principal or AD are the authority over the facility and the school. If the Principal or AD calls you over to the table and says "This game is over" then the game is over - there's nothing you can do about it. You can file reports and call assignors afterwards, but the game is over when they say so.

And who said they could not do that? I also have the ability to say the game is a forfeit too. So if they are leading and the AD wants to take such action, I have the right to take action too. They can cancel the game, but how it gets reported is also something they have no control over.

Peace

[26 Year Gap]

Wow. On the clothesline, 34 is gone and nothing more from him occurs. The illegal screen could have been whistled to halt play earlier, but this kid was intent on doing damage no matter what.
The two handed shove beyond the arc is at minimum an IF. Not all are flagrant as many have pointed out, but if these are mostly in the first half, it appears nothing much was said at HT. Players can develop reputations, for example, I will mention a hothead pre-game if I recall earlier games I have had with that particular team. 34 certainly did not all of a sudden turn into a thug.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

According to my state, officials are the authority over the contest, not ADs, Principal, Superintendent or Parent. Now if they do not want to play a game, that is up to them.

You have authority over the contest, but they have the authority to cancel the contest. Sounds like they win, if this is an authority contest.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You have authority over the contest, but they have the authority to cancel the contest. Sounds like they win, if this is an authority contest.

Who said they didn't? But once again, it would be reported to the state and then let them take action. They might be seen as overstepping their bounds or violating rules and regulations, especially if they did not go through the right channels. And visiting ADs do not have any authority over a facility.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You have authority over the contest, but they have the authority to cancel the contest. Sounds like they win, if this is an authority contest.

Not really. The game will be canceled, but they will *lose* the game.

I know an AD who (over a beer) actually told me once he felt he had the ability to fire the official at halftime if he's not happy with how the official is working. I laughed and said, "Good luck with that."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not really. The game will be canceled, but they will *lose* the game.

There was a coach that did this from the city at a tournament not close to them and the coach took his team off the court because of what he did not like about the officiating. Well the bosses suspended that coach for multiple games and the IHSA I believe took some action as well. So they can do anything they want, but it might come with some unintended consequences they did not anticipate.

Peace

[bainsey]

I posted the video link on our state's fan website. The feedback was pretty close to what you read in this forum, save for this interesting comment:

Either way, you have to call each foul based on the actual play. Officials can't make calls based on prior actions.

[SNIPERBBB]

That is a comment that is hard respond to as you can agree to it, but yet at the same time disagree with it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I posted the video link on our state's fan website. The feedback was pretty close to what you read in this forum, save for this interesting comment:

That comment is naive, at best. While only the fifth is likely flagrant if it's the first foul a player commits, any of them could be flagrant if it's a second or third such offense. If you let a player continue to do this stuff, it's a problem.

Personally, assuming they're all in order, I'm having a quick chat with #34 after that first foul. After it's clear he's only playing basketball because his school doesn't offer hockey (#3 in the video makes that clear), a flagrant needs to be considered. But he likely would have gotten the message if the first two were called intentional. If not, coach pulls him after the second one. By #5, easy flagrant call. #6 doesn't even happen.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not really. The game will be canceled, but they will *lose* the game.

If the home AD chooses to cancel the game because of the actions of the home players, he chooses to *lose* the game.