Rule 9.9.1 - Throw In Front Court + Tip

[mmyersusa]

Situation:
Team "A" has a front court throw in. The ball is thrown into the Frontcourt (FC) and tipped. The ball travels into Backcourt (BC) where it is retrieved by Team "A". What is the ruling?

This is not a test but a question on the application of the rule based upon the new rule of Team Control at disposal of the thrower.

Rule 9.9.1 states:
“A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player or team control (see “Rule 4-12-2” below) in the front court, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt”

Team Control exists once the ball is at the disposal of the thrower.

So the situation where the ball is thrown in by A and touched/tipped in the front court and travels into backcourt then touched by A = Violation.

[just another ref]

There was no player control in frontcourt if ball was only tipped.

no violation

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mmyersusa

Rule 9.9.1 states:
“A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player or team control (see “Rule 4-12-2” below) in the front court, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt”

Team Control exists once the ball is at the disposal of the thrower.

So the situation where the ball is thrown in by A and touched/tipped in the front court and travels into backcourt then touched by A = Violation.

You've misquoted the rule, which explains why your ruling is erroneous. Here's the correct rule from the 2011 book:

"A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt."

In your situation, the ball was not in player control in the front court. No violation.

[Camron Rust]

Yet, we all know, that, as worded, it is not really correct either based on the explanation of the effect the new wording was to have.

The real explanation that jives with the explanation of the changes (but not with the actual rule wording) is that except for the purposes of fouls, there really is no team control until there is player control inbounds.

[APG]

2011-2012 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 4: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1’s pass to A2, who is in the frontcourt standing near the free throw line, is high, bounces several times and goes into Team A’s backcourt untouched. A2 is then the first to control the ball in Team A’s backcourt.

RULING: Legal. There is no backcourt violation since player and team control had not yet been established in Team A’s frontcourt before the ball went into Team A’s backcourt. The throw-in ends when A2 legally touches the ball in the backcourt and the backcourt count starts as soon as A2 gains control in his/her backcourt. (4- 12-2d; 9-9)

SITUATION 5: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1’s pass to A2, who is in the frontcourt standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2’s hand and goes into Team A’s backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in Team A’s backcourt.

RULING: Legal. There is no backcourt violation since player and team control had not yet been established in Team A’s frontcourt before the ball went into Team A’s backcourt. The throw-in ends when A2 legally touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A2 gains control in his/her backcourt. (4-12-2d; 9-9)

[dbking]

the interesting interp to this rule is...

If tipped by B1, who is in the frontcourt, then A1 in frontcourt and retreived by A1 who is in the backcourt, then a violation. The interp says that the throw in ended when touched legally inbounds by B. The exception to the rule ends when B touched the ball.

I will not say that I agree with interp but this is the interp...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by dbking

the interesting interp to this rule is...

If tipped by B1, who is in the frontcourt, then A1 in frontcourt and retreived by A1 who is in the backcourt, then a violation. The interp says that the throw in ended when touched legally inbounds by B. The exception to the rule ends when B touched the ball.

I will not say that I agree with interp but this is the interp...

There was still no player control in frontcourt. This is not a violation.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by dbking

the interesting interp to this rule is...

If tipped by B1, who is in the frontcourt, then A1 in frontcourt and retreived by A1 who is in the backcourt, then a violation. The interp says that the throw in ended when touched legally inbounds by B. The exception to the rule ends when B touched the ball.

I will not say that I agree with interp but this is the interp...

There is still no control established. The throw in ending has no bearing on establishing control. No violation.

[APG]

Originally Posted by dbking

the interesting interp to this rule is...

If tipped by B1, who is in the frontcourt, then A1 in frontcourt and retreived by A1 who is in the backcourt, then a violation. The interp says that the throw in ended when touched legally inbounds by B. The exception to the rule ends when B touched the ball.

I will not say that I agree with interp but this is the interp...

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

2011-2012 NFHS Basketball Interpretations


SITUATION 5: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1’s pass to A2, who is in the frontcourt standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2’s hand and goes into Team A’s backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in Team A’s backcourt.

RULING: Legal. There is no backcourt violation since player and team control had not yet been established in Team A’s frontcourt before the ball went into Team A’s backcourt. The throw-in ends when A2 legally touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A2 gains control in his/her backcourt. (4-12-2d; 9-9)

The above interpretation covers this. The only thing team control during a throw-in affects is fouls by the throw-in team. We handled every other the EXACT same way.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by dbking

the interesting interp to this rule is...

If tipped by B1, who is in the frontcourt, then A1 in frontcourt and retreived by A1 who is in the backcourt, then a violation. The interp says that the throw in ended when touched legally inbounds by B. The exception to the rule ends when B touched the ball.

I will not say that I agree with interp but this is the interp...

In case you haven't heard, you're mistaken.

Read 9-9-1.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by dbking

the interesting interp to this rule is...

If tipped by B1, who is in the frontcourt, then A1 in frontcourt and retreived by A1 who is in the backcourt, then a violation. The interp says that the throw in ended when touched legally inbounds by B. The exception to the rule ends when B touched the ball.

I will not say that I agree with interp but this is the interp...

That only works by rule when you have the ball tipped on a throw-in and A2 jumps from the front court, catches the ball, then lands in the back court. Then you have a violation by rule.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

That only works by rule when you have the ball tipped on a throw-in and A2 jumps from the front court, catches the ball, then lands in the back court. Then you have a violation by rule.

Clarification/comments on this sitch please. Is this the correct ruling for this play?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by mmyersusa

Team "A" has a front court throw in. The ball is thrown into the Frontcourt (FC) and tipped. The ball travels into Backcourt (BC) where it is retrieved by Team "A". What is the ruling?

This very play happened in one of my Tuesday games. My partner, the trail, called a violation.

I immediately went to him to quietly ask whether he believed Team A controlled the ball in the frontcourt. He realized his error, and changed the call to an inadvertant whistle. Everyone was cool with it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Clarification/comments on this sitch please. Is this the correct ruling for this play?

There's an exception to the BC rule for a throw-in (and for a jump ball and for a defensive player). A player can jump from the FC, catch the ball and land in the BC without it being a violation. (The "4 requirements" for a BC violation have been met, so without the exception there would be a violation.)

The exception applies only to the first person to touch the ball. So, if the ball is tipped (doesn't matter whether it was tipped by A1 or B1), and then A2 jumps from the FC, catches the ball and lands in the BC, it's now a violation.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Clarification/comments on this sitch please. Is this the correct ruling for this play?

Correct ruling