The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 70
Scoring Error at End of Game (help with situation)

This will be long, so please bear with me.

Last night in a highly competitive BV game, we had an unusual situation arise. With about 15 seconds left, the home team is up by 3 and misses the front end of a bonus free throw. Visitors rebound come down the floor and pull up for a "3", however the shooters foot is barely, but clearly, on the 3-pt line. Trail official (his primary) points towards the ground indicating a 2-pt attempt and no other official signals that it was a 3-pt attempt.

The visiting player makes the shot and the everyone in the gym, except the 3 referees and the visiting coach thinks it is a 3, tying the game. Gym is loud, and the score keeper put 3 points on the board and we officials don't notice that as the home team quickly inbounded and came up the floor and ultimately hit a game winning shot with 1.5 seconds on the clock.

I know we should have caught the scoring mistake on the scoreboard, but the game was so intense no one thought to take the eyes off of the players.

My question is, what is the proper outcome/procedure if the home team ends up missing that last shot? Scoreboard showed 66-66 when he took the shot and both teams played it out thinking that was the proper score when in fact the correct score was 66-65.

Again, the score "should" have been discovered at the time, but it wasn't and the table crew members are very experienced and you wouldn't expect that error to come from them. Please help with Rule and Case Book notations if possible.

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston area
Posts: 615
This is a scorer's error, not a correctable error. It can be corrected at any time until all three officials leave the confines of the gym. If the game had gone into overtime...and the overtime had started, then the score can be corrected (award 2 points instead of 3), but the overtime must be played to its conclusion.

Casebook 2.11.10
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef View Post
This is a scorer's error, not a correctable error. It can be corrected at any time until all three officials leave the confines of the gym. If the game had gone into overtime...and the overtime had started, then the score can be corrected (award 2 points instead of 3), but the overtime must be played to its conclusion.

Casebook 2.11.10
So, you are saying that if that final shot doesn't go in we can correct the score after the final horn? It is an ugly situation because even the team that ultimately won (home) thought they were tied and the visiting team didn't foul because they thought it was tied as well. No win situation, unless you catch the scoreboard error right away.....
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:32pm
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref View Post
Trail official (his primary) points towards the ground indicating a 2-pt attempt and no other official signals that it was a 3-pt attempt.
I'm curious about your mechanic. Is there anything else you do to distinguish a 2 from a 3, before and/or after the shot?
__________________
Confidence is a vehicle, not a destination.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 736
Not a correctable error

I like to think of this as an error that we can correct. Correctable errors are errors by the officials that have certain time parameters for corrections. This is a record keeping error, the officials made no mistakes.

Therefore, you were well within your right to correct this at the end of the game and thus avoid overtime. As a matter of fact, you still should have corrected the score so that the end result was 68-65 officially.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:00pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
2.11.10 SITUATION C: The scorer mistakenly credits a field goal by A1 to B1 and Team B in the second quarter. The regulation game ends with the score tied. During a time-out in overtime, the scorer detects the mistake and advises the referee.

RULING: The referee will have the mistake corrected. The overtime will continue with the corrected score. Once the ball becomes live in the overtime, the overtime will be played even though a subsequent correction of an error or mistake changes the score. A bookkeeping mistake can be corrected at any time until the final score is approved.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I'm curious about your mechanic. Is there anything else you do to distinguish a 2 from a 3, before and/or after the shot?
I know it's not an "approved" mechanic...

but, if there is a really close shot (near the 3pt. line) and the shooter has indeed stepped on the line...

I look at the table and descretely put two fingers near my mid-section.

9 out of 10 times, the table crew looks like they have no idea if the shot should count as 3 or 2...then when I give them the "2" signal, they looked relieved and nod their head up and down.

Again...it might not be a "pure" mechanic...but, it sure alleviates possible problems such as the one in the OP.

"Just Communicate Baby"
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I'm curious about your mechanic. Is there anything else you do to distinguish a 2 from a 3, before and/or after the shot?
Well, I can honestly say I can't remember ever signalling "2" before, but in lieu of the circumstances, my instincts took over and felt compelled to make sure people in the gym knew I was looking at the play/foot because the foot was barely on the line. I know it isn't an approved signal, however I was criticised by an observer last year for not doing that in a similar situation so "when in Rome" came to play.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:13pm
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
If there's a close play, I always show 2 if a foot is barely on the line. It can only do good, so why not?
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:13pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref View Post
Well, I can honestly say I can't remember ever signalling "2" before, but in lieu of the circumstances, my instincts took over and felt compelled to make sure people in the gym knew I was looking at the play/foot because the foot was barely on the line. I know it isn't an approved signal, however I was criticised by an observer last year for not doing that in a similar situation so "when in Rome" came to play.
I use the unapproved mechanic as well...yes, technically the lack of a three-point signal should tell the table it's a two-point shot, but it's a lot easier to just do the mechanic, and avoid the table being confused and possibly awarding what they think the shot was (I've seen it happen), and stop the game. Plus it shows everyone you were on top of the play.

*I also fully expect to see Billy tell us about how this is the mechanic in his little corner of Connecticut*
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.


Last edited by APG; Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 06:29pm.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref View Post
I know it isn't an approved signal, however I was criticised by an observer last year for not doing that in a similar situation so "when in Rome" came to play.
...and yet you still didn't signal a "2" when you were instructed to do so by your Roman advisor.

I bet you wished you had after this particular game.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude View Post
...and yet you still didn't signal a "2" when you were instructed to do so by your Roman advisor.

I bet you wished you had after this particular game.
No, I did do it this game. I was just always told not to do it in the past so I have refrained. Then last year in a MNSHSL playoff game I didn't do it and it was part of my observation report so I did it last night. I think it is a helpful mechanic as long as the observers agree.......
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I use the unapproved mechanic as well...yes, technically the lack of a three-point signal should tell the table it's a two-point shot, but it's a lot easier to just do the mechanic, and avoid the table being confused and possibly awarding what they think the shot was (I've seen it happen), and stop the game. Plus it shows everyone you were on top of the play.
Same up here in Alaska, just an accepted practice. (Underlined part is my favorite reason to use it.)
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:32pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I'm curious about your mechanic. Is there anything else you do to distinguish a 2 from a 3, before and/or after the shot?

What I want to know is: If NO official signaled a 3-pt field goal then why in the world did the Scoreboard Operator add three points to the score?

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref View Post
No, I did do it this game. I was just always told not to do it in the past so I have refrained. Then last year in a MNSHSL playoff game I didn't do it and it was part of my observation report so I did it last night. I think it is a helpful mechanic as long as the observers agree.......
...and the table crew actually observes you.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Error Scoring Question jeschmit Baseball 10 Wed Mar 31, 2010 08:43am
Is NFHS Case Book Play 2.10.1 Sit. G(d) (re: corr. error situation) really an error? rpirtle Basketball 3 Wed Dec 24, 2008 03:25pm
Resolving a scoring error BayStateRef Basketball 13 Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:44am
Error by the Scoring Table ColoradoT5 Basketball 11 Fri May 26, 2006 11:32am
Scoring error filinuk Basketball 4 Thu Feb 06, 2003 04:06pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1