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Old Mon May 22, 2006, 09:18pm
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Error by the Scoring Table

Under NFHS rules Team A and Team B are playing. Team B commits the 7th team foul but the scoring table does not tell the refs nor do the refs ask if Team A should be shooting a 1 and 1. The error is not discovered until the 9th team foul on Team B. Should Team A be awarded the missed chance to shoot the free throws for the 7th & 8th team fouls?

ColoradoT5
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Old Mon May 22, 2006, 09:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoT5
Under NFHS rules Team A and Team B are playing. Team B commits the 7th team foul but the scoring table does not tell the refs nor do the refs ask if Team A should be shooting a 1 and 1. The error is not discovered until the 9th team foul on Team B. Should Team A be awarded the missed chance to shoot the free throws for the 7th & 8th team fouls?

ColoradoT5
My question is how could everyone in the gym fall asleep? Both or 3 officials don't realize the foul count? No one at the scorer's table realizes it? Team A's head coach and assistants don't realize it? Non of the more alert fans yelled anything that might make the light go on in somebody's head?
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Old Mon May 22, 2006, 10:12pm
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This falls under the correctable error rule. The statue of limitations for a correctable error is the "first dead ball after the clock has properly started". So, in all likelihood, by the 9th team foul it would be too late - however, it depends on how many dead balls we have had since the 7th team foul (violations, fouls, time-outs, etc.)
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Old Mon May 22, 2006, 11:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoT5
Under NFHS rules Team A and Team B are playing. Team B commits the 7th team foul but the scoring table does not tell the refs nor do the refs ask if Team A should be shooting a 1 and 1. The error is not discovered until the 9th team foul on Team B. Should Team A be awarded the missed chance to shoot the free throws for the 7th & 8th team fouls?

ColoradoT5
It's a timing issue.

After the 7th foul, the ball is put into play. If the clock starts, the error must bwe discovered the next time the ball becomes dead. If it's not discovered, then it becomes to late to rectify.

The same would apply to the 8th team foul.

As Brad said, unless you have 1 or 2 dead ball fouls, it's unlikely that the 7th foul error can be corrected but it's possible that the 8th foul error could be, if in fact the 8th foul was not a teamn control or PC foul.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 07:04am
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Yeah, the table fell asleep! That why its important to try and keep track of teams fouls in your head. It takes time to do this, but it will keep you out of that kind of situation.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 09:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
My question is how could everyone in the gym fall asleep? Both or 3 officials don't realize the foul count? No one at the scorer's table realizes it? Team A's head coach and assistants don't realize it? Non of the more alert fans yelled anything that might make the light go on in somebody's head?
Gosh, maybe it was a summer league tournament with no scoreboard - just the little flippie number things at the table for the score...the kids running the table were players from the host team who had never done it before...two of the officials were rookies to whatever level of ball it was, and the third just had his/her hands full keeping the crew together and lost track of the fouls...it happens.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
Gosh, maybe it was a summer league tournament with no scoreboard - just the little flippie number things at the table for the score...the kids running the table were players from the host team who had never done it before...two of the officials were rookies to whatever level of ball it was, and the third just had his/her hands full keeping the crew together and lost track of the fouls...it happens.
I was going to ask that, b/c that was the scenario that originally popped in my mind when I read the post. I figured Colorado would have jumped in and volunteered the info after my post, but he/she didn't.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 10:20am
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Correctable errors happen everyday of the week. It's expected that it will happen. That's why 2-10 exists. You fix it and move on. There's nothing to get bent out of shape about.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 03:11pm
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It happens all the time in spring ball. The table is manned by "one volunteer from each team. The home team shall keep the book and the visitor shall run the clock". Now it's usually two dads, who are more into the game then either the clock or the book. If they aren't cheering or yelling instructions they are staring at the controls of the clock and trying to figure out how to add or subtract 3 seconds since the official told them they had to since they forgot to start/stop it before. It's pretty comical and only occasionally does someone get upset. If it's kids or parents it's expected.

Coach GBert
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 10:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachgbert
It happens all the time in spring ball. The table is manned by "one volunteer from each team. The home team shall keep the book and the visitor shall run the clock". Now it's usually two dads, who are more into the game then either the clock or the book. If they aren't cheering or yelling instructions they are staring at the controls of the clock and trying to figure out how to add or subtract 3 seconds since the official told them they had to since they forgot to start/stop it before. It's pretty comical and only occasionally does someone get upset. If it's kids or parents it's expected.

Coach GBert
Yep the above is exactly what it was. Thanks for all the feedback

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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoT5
Yep the above is exactly what it was. Thanks for all the feedback

ColoradoT5
In those of type of tournaments it might be easier if you change the by-laws so that the bonus starts on the 10th foul. Would make it a little easier for the table to keep track that way.

Just a suggestion.
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 11:32am
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The spring and summer leagues that I work here in NoCal only time FT's are sonly shot on a shooting foul (1 points and 1 FT) unless the score is less than 10 points in the last two mintues. Otherwise, team retains possession get a point and ball OOB. Makes our lives much easier and rarely is there an issue we the table, although I probably just jinxed myself for this weekend.
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