Resolving a scoring error

[BayStateRef]

State playoff game -- early round. 8:10 to go in game (played in halves) when visitors make a layup. Video shows the scoreboard adds 4 points so instead of 51-44, the score is 51-46. Two baskets later, home team calls time out with 6:40 to go and scoreboard shows 51-50.

Table sounds horn and calls referee over. Home scorer explains there is a problem. His book shows 2 less points for visitors. Visitors book has the same score as the scoreboard.

Refs take 3 minutes to confer and leave the score alone....51-50. Visitors go on to win by 3.

The fan boys say the ref ordered the home book to change to match the visitors book and the scoreboard.

Rule 2-11-11 tells us how to reconcile a mistake -- sort of.

"If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he has knowledge which permits him to decide otherwise."

"If the discrepancy is in the score and the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook."

So what exactly is the proper procedure in this situation? Do you count the individual points for each player and add them up? Then what happens when the home book and the visitors book do not match? Neither you nor your partners noticed the "4-point play." No one called it to your attention sooner.

(For video , click here: http://www.youtube.com/v/pnboJuiGmiM)

Does the time delay matter in how you handle it? The scoring error was at 8:10, but the ref was not called until 6:40. I know this bookkeeping error is correctable until the final score is approved, but the delay in reporting it to the officials makes it much harder to determine the correct score.

[BillyMac]

No easy answer or method for an official to check the scorebooks and scoreboard(s) when there is a conflict, but:

1) Are both scorebooks the same?
2) Are both scorekeepers at the table?
3) Do the total number of individual points equal the total number of team points in either/both book(s)?
4) Are there any differences between the quarters (periods) scores in either/both book(s)?
5) Has either/both scorekeeper(s) shown any evidence of having problems correctly keeping score up until that point, i.e. not paying attention?

These suggestions may help you to figure out the correct score, but it is still going to be messy.

[JugglingReferee]

The only thing that matters is the running score of the official scorebook. All others (home and visitors) are not official. If the crew is 100% positive that a scoring error has taken place, I do believe that they are entrusted to fix it.

Individual points are of no concern. There is no time restriction.

Sounds like the crew messed up by changing the official book to match the visitors'.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The only thing that matters is the running score of the official scorebook. All others (home and visitors) are not official. If the crew is 100% positive that a scoring error has taken place, I do believe that they are entrusted to fix it.

Individual points are of no concern. There is no time restriction.

Sounds like the crew messed up by changing the official book to match the visitors'.

Not necessarily. The individual point are a great way to cross check the running total. To change the home/official book to match the visitors may or may not be the right thing to do...not enough info.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

All these threads about a Home scorebook versus a visitors scorebook are confusing to me. There is ONE official scorebook, whether it's kept by someone from the home team, the visiting team, or some bum off the street. There is ONE official scorebook.

That being said, if a question arises regarding the correct score, you must go with what is in the ONE official scorebook. If the official has some direct knowledge that the official scorebook is wrong, he may make a correction. But if he has no reason to change it, and there is a discrepancy between what is on the board and what is on the scoreboard, then by rule, as stated in the OP, "the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook."

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The only thing that matters is the running score of the official scorebook. All others (home and visitors) are not official. If the crew is 100% positive that a scoring error has taken place, I do believe that they are entrusted to fix it.

Individual points are of no concern. There is no time restriction.

Sounds like the crew messed up by changing the official book to match the visitors'.

I disagree. The only thing that matters is the running score of the official scorebook? Where does it say that? Individual points are of no concern? Really! That might be the only way to resolve it. Check every books individual point totals. If it's a playoff game, I would do the extra due diliegence. I bet you will find that players grand totals in Team B book vs. the official book is the same. Now all you have to do is tally them up and you will find that one or the other is off. Change the scoreboard to match the official book.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not necessarily. The individual point are a great way to cross check the running total. To change the home/official book to match the visitors may or may not be the right thing to do...not enough info.

Could be a regional thing. I've been taught to never accept the visitor's book, nor the home's book. Figure out what happened with the official score book. Maybe some further info could be learned from the visiting team or the home team, but I'm not accepting their book as anything near gospel.

As for using the individual scoring, I'm hesitant, but I suppose I won't rule it out. Nowadays, I ask to please cross of the running total first. If they know who it was that scored *and* have time to write it down, then that is a bonus for the coaches.

Edit: added "not".

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I disagree. The only thing that matters is the running score of the official scorebook? Where does it say that? Individual points are of no concern? Really! That might be the only way to resolve it. Check every books individual point totals. If it's a playoff game, I would do the extra due diliegence. I bet you will find that players grand totals in Team B book vs. the official book is the same. Now all you have to do is tally them up and you will find that one or the other is off. Change the scoreboard to match the official book.

Ah, sh!t, OS disagrees with me. I'm hanging up the whistle.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I disagree. The only thing that matters is the running score of the official scorebook? Where does it say that? Individual points are of no concern? Really!

Where does it say that? In the rulebook. Same place that it's been for about the last 50 years or so.

Find somebody with an NFHS rulebook and ask them to look it up for you. It's on p.21 of the NFHS rulebook under rule 2-11-11.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Where does it say that? In the rulebook. Same place that it's been for about the last 50 years or so.
Find somebody with an NFHS rulebook and ask them to look it up for you. It's on p.21 of the NFHS rulebook under rule 2-11-11.

That is not exactly what the rule says.

It says the first step is to resolve the problem. It says the official book counts "unless (the referee) has knowledge which permits him to decide otherwise."

I had this happen last year. Home book showed two points less than visitors' book and I am summoned to the table. We went player by player to compare and found two foul shots for a player in the visitors' book that was not in the home book. I knew that player had been fouled and made two free throws. It was not in the home book. But I had the knowledge that the rule requires that the visitors' book was correct. So I had the home book changed -- both the running score and the player's score.

Only if we cannot find the discrepancy -- or we have no knowledge to help -- are we required to accept the running total in the official book.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

That is not exactly what the rule says.

Yes, it sureashell is exactly what the rule says. Go back and read Juggling Referee's post. That is what was being responded to.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Old School

I bet you will find that players grand totals...

OS, I have to do this for my own sanity. In a previous thread, you used the word "playoff's" as a plural. Here you use "players" as a possessive. You've got it exactly backward. The apostrophe is used in possessive nouns. A simple letter 's' is used to make a noun plural.

Just trying to help.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The only thing that matters is the running score of the official scorebook. All others (home and visitors) are not official. If the crew is 100% positive that a scoring error has taken place, I do believe that they are entrusted to fix it.

Individual points are of no concern. There is no time restriction.

Sounds like the crew messed up by changing the official book to match the visitors'.

What he said.

Mregor

[Old School]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

OS, I have to do this for my own sanity. In a previous thread, you used the word "playoff's" as a plural. Here you use "players" as a possessive. You've got it exactly backward. The apostrophe is used in possessive nouns. A simple letter 's' is used to make a noun plural.

Just trying to help.

English wasn't my strong suit. I was an athlete.