Did the rookies get this right?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The throw-in ends when the ball is touched on the court, or the inbounding team violates.

I think you meant...

The throw-in ends when the ball is LEGALLY touched, or the inbounding team violates.

A kick is not a legal touch and the throwin doesn't end on a kick. The arrow will be unchanged and the new throwin will be for the kick, not the AP.

Also, "on the court" has, at least in some contexts, been interpreted to be inbounds (see LGP rules). An OOB player touching the released throwin will have violated but it is not a throwin violation. That is considered to be a legal throwin that has ended....then a OOB violation occurred....arrow changes.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think you meant...

The throw-in ends when the ball is LEGALLY touched, or the inbounding team violates.

A kick is not a legal touch and the throwin doesn't end on a kick. The arrow will be unchanged and the new throwin will be for the kick, not the AP.

Also, "on the court" has, at least in some contexts, been interpreted to be inbounds (see LGP rules). An OOB player touching the released throwin will have violated but it is not a throwin violation. That is considered to be a legal throwin that has ended....then a OOB violation occurred....arrow changes.

Correct on both counts.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

A kick is not a legal touch and the throwin doesn't end on a kick. The arrow will be unchanged and the new throwin will be for the kick, not the AP.

Hmmm...what if the kick is by the offensive team? Wouldn't that be a violation and therefore the arrow WOULD change since the inbounding team violated?

[APG]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hmmm...what if the kick is by the offensive team? Wouldn't that be a violation and therefore the arrow WOULD change since the inbounding team violated?

I always took that to mean a throw-in violation...not just any violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I always took that to mean a throw-in violation...not just any violation.

NCAA specifically says "throw-in violation." Don't have my FED books handy to check, but I think it is (or interpreted as) the same.

[mtn335]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAA specifically says "throw-in violation." Don't have my FED books handy to check, but I think it is (or interpreted as) the same.

NFHS 4.42.5 (Emphasis mine)

The throw-in ends when:

(a) the passed ball touches or is legally touched by another player inbounds

(b) The passed ball touches ir is touched by another player out of bounds, except as in 7-5-7 [endline after score]

(c) The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation

[Toren]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I always took that to mean a throw-in violation...not just any violation.

By the wording of the rule 6-4-5 it doesn't specify. This might be one of those intent instances that some of our leadership can shed some light on.

At this point, I'm going change of arrow and the next throw in for Team B is for the kick by Team A.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Toren

By the wording of the rule 6-4-5 it doesn't specify. This might be one of those intent instances that some of our leadership can shed some light on.

At this point, I'm going change of arrow and the next throw in for Team B is for the kick by Team A.

You need to look in the right spot -- 4-throw-in (4-42?) and see when it ends. I'm "certain" it says "throw-in violation."

[mtn335]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You need to look in the right spot -- 4-throw-in (4-42?) and see when it ends. I'm "certain" it says "throw-in violation."

4-42-5, I put the text above. Throw-in violation only.

[Toren]

Thanks guys. I'm convinced.

4-42-5 is the secondary part of this ruling.

Team doesn't lose arrow, but they would lose throw-in privledge and Team B gets the ball for a kicking violation by Team A. No change in arrow.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mtn335

4-42-5, I put the text above. Throw-in violation only.

Beautiful!

I learned something today.

Life is good.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hmmm...what if the kick is by the offensive team? Wouldn't that be a violation and therefore the arrow WOULD change since the inbounding team violated?

You're correct. I didn't consider a kick by the offensive team. I was only thinking of the defensive team kicking the ball. The part about the throwin team violating is not restricted to throwin violations...but just violations.

RULE 6-4-5 . . . The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. (cut more on fouls)

While all violations end the throwin it doesn't limit the loss of the arrow to throwin violations..