Did the rookies get this right?

[Mark Padgett]

I was helping train some rec league rookies last night at a 6th grade boys scrimmage. During an AP throw-in, the offensive team was called for an illegal screen while the inbounder was still holding the ball. The refs gave the ball to the other team for a throw-in but weren't sure whether or not to change the AP arrow. Later, almost the same thing happened during another AP throw-in but this time the inbounder stepped over the line prior to the throw-in for a violation. Again, they weren't sure what to do, if anything, with the AP arrow. In the first case, they finally decided to leave it alone. In the second case, they discussed it then changed it. Were they correct in either case?

[tref]

2 for 2

[APG]

Are you asking this as a question for rookies or yourself not sure?

Either way 6-4-5

[berserkBBK]

They got it right. I had a defensive holding on an AP throw in where the home team was on defense. I know we all have our terrible table stories but they refused to keep the arrow for black. It was an under level game and we had to have the head coach for white tell the table to flip it. Later he told me he did not know if I was correct but "I sold the crap out of it." We laughed and I assured him it was correct and we moved on

[bob jenkins]

The arrow is changed when the AP throw-in ends.

The throw-in ends when the ball is touched on the court, or the inbounding team violates.

The throw-in does NOT end on a foul.

So, the first throw-in did not end, and the arrow should not be changed.

The second throw-in did end, and the arrow should be changed.

[tref]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

I know we all have our terrible table stories but they refused to keep the arrow for black. It was an under level game...

Thanks for coming out, God bless & good night!

[Toren]

This is impressive for two rookies to get this right. Two solid calls.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Toren

This is impressive for two rookies to get this right. Two solid calls.

Yeah - one of them is a college freshman and the other a HS junior. They'll both be working a "competitive" MS program that starts next week. The assignor asked me to work with them last night and, overall, they both did a really good job. I worked one quarter with each of them, then let them work the second half together.

Oh yeah, neither of them called any reaches or over the backs. And yes, I made sure they both now know the first rule of officiating.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The throw-in ends when the ball is touched on the court, or the inbounding team violates.

I think you meant...

The throw-in ends when the ball is LEGALLY touched, or the inbounding team violates.

A kick is not a legal touch and the throwin doesn't end on a kick. The arrow will be unchanged and the new throwin will be for the kick, not the AP.

Also, "on the court" has, at least in some contexts, been interpreted to be inbounds (see LGP rules). An OOB player touching the released throwin will have violated but it is not a throwin violation. That is considered to be a legal throwin that has ended....then a OOB violation occurred....arrow changes.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Toren

This is impressive for two rookies to get this right. Two solid calls.

The one that impressed me the most was when a throw-in went OOB without being touched and the rookie brought it back to the original spot for the throw-in. I know a few veterans who don't get this one right.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think you meant...

The throw-in ends when the ball is LEGALLY touched, or the inbounding team violates.

A kick is not a legal touch and the throwin doesn't end on a kick. The arrow will be unchanged and the new throwin will be for the kick, not the AP.

Also, "on the court" has, at least in some contexts, been interpreted to be inbounds (see LGP rules). An OOB player touching the released throwin will have violated but it is not a throwin violation. That is considered to be a legal throwin that has ended....then a OOB violation occurred....arrow changes.

Correct on both counts.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Toren

This is impressive for two rookies to get this right. Two solid calls.

Yeah, the probability of flipping a coin to get both calls right is just 0.25!

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

A kick is not a legal touch and the throwin doesn't end on a kick. The arrow will be unchanged and the new throwin will be for the kick, not the AP.

Hmmm...what if the kick is by the offensive team? Wouldn't that be a violation and therefore the arrow WOULD change since the inbounding team violated?

[APG]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hmmm...what if the kick is by the offensive team? Wouldn't that be a violation and therefore the arrow WOULD change since the inbounding team violated?

I always took that to mean a throw-in violation...not just any violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I always took that to mean a throw-in violation...not just any violation.

NCAA specifically says "throw-in violation." Don't have my FED books handy to check, but I think it is (or interpreted as) the same.