The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 04, 2011, 02:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 58
Deliberate lane violations on free throw?

Hey everyone,

This question is on the IAABO refresher exam:

"A-1 is fouled with 5 tenths of a second on the game clock and the score tied. A-1 makes the first of a one and one. Team B requests and is granted a time-out. Following the time-out team B places four players in the marked lane spaces. As A-1 releases the ball attempting to miss the free throw, all four players step into the lane committing a lane violation. A-1's attempt is unsuccessful. The official awards A-1 a substitute free throw. During the substitute free throw, team B again violates and A-1 deliberately misses the free throw. The referee notifies the team B coach that the next time his/her team commits a lane violation his/her team will be charged with a technical foul. Is the official correct?"

I am stumped because I cannot find any direct or even similar references to this situation in the rule or case book. The way I am interpreting this is that the first violation is treated as though it were accidental. Since all team members then stepped into the lane a second time, it could be interpreted as huddling and a warning is issued based on 4-47. If team B then were to step in and violate a third time, it would be a technical foul based on 10-1-5-d.

To answer the question, I would say YES the official is correct. I am not 100% sure though that this situation constitutes huddling.

Any thoughts, comments, discussion, and interpretations are welcome.

Thanks,
Brian
__________________
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 04, 2011, 03:08pm
TODO: creative title here
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,249
I'd think you could use 10-1-5 as your basis for a technical foul in this situation, as I'd interpret this tactic as "Allow[ing] the game to develop into an actionless contest", especially if you have an "all four players violating" situation as described. An action like that is clearly intentional.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 04, 2011, 03:09pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,641
Maybe under 10-1-5 in the FED rule book?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Fri Nov 04, 2011 at 03:12pm.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 04, 2011, 03:13pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
I'd think you could use 10-1-5 as your basis for a technical foul in this situation, as I'd interpret this tactic as "Allow[ing] the game to develop into an actionless contest", especially if you have an "all four players violating" situation as described. An action like that is clearly intentional.
J, I hope you're a great mind b/c we think alike.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 04, 2011, 03:34pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Don't use 10-1-5d, no need. 10-1-5 is good enough, and doesn't require official warnings. If you try applying 10-1-5d, the coach will try it again with only B1. This tactic is illegal even if B1 is the only participant.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 05, 2011, 08:44pm
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
Funny,

After the first two times violating, I didn't see them violate the third time. My game is over.
__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 05, 2011, 09:23pm
APG's Avatar
APG APG is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 View Post
After the first two times violating, I didn't see them violate the third time. My game is over.
Why forfeit the game...unless you're saying you wouldn't "see" the violation. Call the T and that solves you problem.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 05, 2011, 09:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Why forfeit the game...unless you're saying you wouldn't "see" the violation. Call the T and that solves you problem.
"...I didn't see them violate the third time."
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 05, 2011, 09:53pm
APG's Avatar
APG APG is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
"...I didn't see them violate the third time."
Perhaps if the violation isn't that blatant...but if it's as egerious as made in the OP, wouldn't you say an official would look stupid and silly not calling the obvious here?
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 05, 2011, 10:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Perhaps if the violation isn't that blatant...but if it's as egerious as made in the OP, wouldn't you say an official would look stupid and silly not calling the obvious here?
Pretty sure the comment was tongue in cheek. However, I see obvious violations not called all the time.

Is Coach B going to complain? About what? "We were doing something illegal and they wouldn't call it." Screw that. He doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I don't have a problem not calling one in that situation.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 05, 2011, 10:57pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,393
I'd prefer to address it. "Coach, we can't let this become an actionless game. If you keep violating, we'll have to issue the T." Pretty simple. I don't like purposely "missing" the obvious violation.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 07, 2011, 04:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,627
We had a previous thread on this several years ago after I conjured up this exact scenario. The conclusion was to do what Scrapper just posted.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 07, 2011, 08:12pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,386
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
"Well, boys, it looks like he'll shoot till he makes it."
__________________
Never hit a piņata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 07, 2011, 08:15pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,386
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTOfficial View Post
Hey everyone,

This question is on the IAABO refresher exam:

"A-1 is fouled with 5 tenths of a second on the game clock and the score tied. A-1 makes the first of a one and one. Team B requests and is granted a time-out. Following the time-out team B places four players in the marked lane spaces. As A-1 releases the ball attempting to miss the free throw, all four players step into the lane committing a lane violation. A-1's attempt is unsuccessful. The official awards A-1 a substitute free throw. During the substitute free throw, team B again violates and A-1 deliberately misses the free throw. The referee notifies the team B coach that the next time his/her team commits a lane violation his/her team will be charged with a technical foul. Is the official correct?"

I am stumped because I cannot find any direct or even similar references to this situation in the rule or case book. The way I am interpreting this is that the first violation is treated as though it were accidental. Since all team members then stepped into the lane a second time, it could be interpreted as huddling and a warning is issued based on 4-47. If team B then were to step in and violate a third time, it would be a technical foul based on 10-1-5-d.

To answer the question, I would say YES the official is correct. I am not 100% sure though that this situation constitutes huddling.

Any thoughts, comments, discussion, and interpretations are welcome.

Thanks,
Brian
btw you'll have to post the response after your refresher test meeting....I used to belong to board 105.
__________________
Never hit a piņata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 08, 2011, 07:07am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap View Post
"Well, boys, it looks like he'll shoot till he makes it."
If this comes out sounding harsh or judgmental, let me just say I honestly don't mean it that way. But whatever we do on this play, that's the one thing I would NOT do. There is no way in the world I'm allowing 45 free throws due to violations.

Warn the coach, T the team, forfeit the game, all of the above. I don't care which one. But do not allow the defending team to simply continue violating to force more free throws.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Free throw violations? Teigan Basketball 3 Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:37am
Free throw violations lukealex Basketball 15 Thu Mar 02, 2006 01:48pm
free throw violations pinchmaster Basketball 16 Sat Dec 31, 2005 01:10am
Two plays - free throw violations... NorthSide Basketball 5 Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:32am
free throw lane violations mdray Basketball 8 Wed Feb 12, 2003 04:42pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:24pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1