Hands Up or Hands Down?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Again, I have a real hard time imagining how 2-4 players wiggling their fingers along the lane line would "disconcert" anyone.

Of course, I'd be more shocked to see something like this in a boys game...by more than one person.

I am going to play devil's advocate here and will ask you the following question: What does the word 'disconcertion' mean to you. How does this relate to: NFHS R4-S20-A1: A free throw is the opportunity given a player to score one point by an unhindered try for goal from within the free-throw semicirlcle and behind the free-throw line. NCAA R4-S30-A1: A free throw is the previlige given a player to score one point by an unhindered try for goal from within the free-throw semicirlcle and behind the free-throw line.

The word 'unhindered' is the key to how we as officials handle this situation. I think that all of us would agree that if all of the defenisive players were to start saying "miss it", "miss it", "miss it" from the time the shooter received the ball from the time he released it on his free throw attempt, this would be a classic example of 'disconcertion'. "Playing the piano", which is what I call the waving of one's hands/fingers, is really no different that saying "miss it", "miss it". It is disconcertion because the shooter is not receiving an "unhindered" free throw attempt. The defense can hold there arms up, but it can not "play the piano".

MTD, Sr.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am going to play devil's advocate here and will ask you the following question: What does the word 'disconcertion' mean to you. How does this relate to: NFHS R4-S20-A1: A free throw is the opportunity given a player to score one point by an unhindered try for goal from within the free-throw semicirlcle and behind the free-throw line. NCAA R4-S30-A1: A free throw is the previlige given a player to score one point by an unhindered try for goal from within the free-throw semicirlcle and behind the free-throw line.

MTD, Sr.

I can tell you it ain't no "jazz hands."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I can tell you it ain't no "jazz hands."

APG:

Please read my blue addition to my original post.

MTD, Sr.

[APG]

You go ahead and make that call MTD...I'm still not calling that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You go ahead and make that call MTD...I'm still not calling that.

Even if you don't plan on calling it, you can still tell them to knock it off...."If I see you doing that and I think it distracted the shooter and caused him to miss, he'll get another shot" (emphasis on "and I think it..."). You can get the desired result without ever calling it.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Even if you don't plan on calling it, you can still tell them to knock it off...."If I see you doing that and I think it distracted the shooter and caused him to miss, he'll get another shot" (emphasis on "and I think it..."). You can get the desired result without ever calling it.

I'd go that route if a coach made an issue of it.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You go ahead and make that call MTD...I'm still not calling that.

APG:

Camron's post is what I do and have done my entire career. But fact remains is that it is disconcertion because it is keeping the shooter from having an 'unhindered' attempt to make a free throw. The word 'unhindered' is the key word in the definition of a free throw. If you aren't going to stop at least the two defensive players nearest the free thrower from playing the piano, then how can you penalize the same defensive players from saying "miss it, miss it, miss it" while the free thrower is attempting his free throw.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

APG:

Camron's post is what I do and have down my entire career. But fact remains is that it is disconcertion because it is keeping the shooter from having an 'unhindered' attempt to make a free throw. The word 'unhindered' is the key word in the definition of a free throw. If you aren't going to stop at least the two defensive players nearest the free thrower from playing the piano, then how can you penalize the same defensive players from saying "miss it, miss it, miss it" while the free thrower is attempting his free throw.

MTD, Sr.

Sorry, I'm not convinced it's in any way a hinderance to wiggle the fingers. Unless you're willing to require all defenders along the lane stand perfectly still, you're just setting yourself up for problems by trying to deal with this.

Raising and/or lowering arms in concert with other teammates? Sure. Wiggling the fingers? Nah.

[Rob1968]

9.1.3D and 9.1.3G Both apply, and both mention the judgement of the covering official.

[APG]

I take unhindered to mean...you can't get in the shooter's face. I'm not reading more into it. The defensive team can not disconcert not because it's "hindering" rather because the rules in all the codes say you can't disconcert. Disconcertion is a judgement call and in my judgement, I have a hard time seeing how someone waving their fingers is disconcertion at all.

[klacc]

I think it is fine. Officials tend do think that they have more authority then they actually do.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by klacc

I think it is fine. Officials tend do think that they have more authority then they actually do.

klacc:

"What" do you think is fine? And, please go into detail as to how officials "think that they have more authority then they actually do"? Camron and I would love to know.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

klacc:

"What" do you think is fine? And, please go into detail as to how officials "think that they have more authority then they actually do"? Camron and I would love to know.

MTD, Sr.

I'm with you on this one. While I can't envision the wiggling fingers actually consituting diconcertion, I suppose it's possible. But klacc's statement here seems like he heard it from a guy who also likes to say officials should be invisible during the game.