Clean Hands - Dirty Hands

[Stripes13]

Had this discussion, and would like some other opinions on how to handle this one.

4th Down 8 from B16
A runs sweep to left, and picks up 6-yds. Play is over, then dead ball late hit by defense.

One thought was:
A didn't make line to gain, but the dead ball penalty moves ball to B 5yd line and A has 1st and goal from 5-yd line. The rationale was the defense couldn't get the ball with "dirty" hands.

Other thought was:
A did not make line to gain, ball turned over on downs to B, dead ball foul on B moves ball back to B's 5-yd line, half the distance to goal, chains are set and B starts 1st 10 from own 5-yard line. Clean hands or dirty hands only is an issue if there is a change of possession during the down. A failed to make line to gain...B gets ball and is penalized from succeeding spot since the foul was a dead ball foul.

Who's buying the adult beverages? The dirty hands guys? or the B gets the ball on own 5-yard line guys?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Stripes13

Had this discussion, and would like some other opinions on how to handle this one.

4th Down 8 from B16
A runs sweep to left, and picks up 6-yds. Play is over, then dead ball late hit by defense.

One thought was:
A didn't make line to gain, but the dead ball penalty moves ball to B 5yd line and A has 1st and goal from 5-yd line. The rationale was the defense couldn't get the ball with "dirty" hands.

Other thought was:
A did not make line to gain, ball turned over on downs to B, dead ball foul on B moves ball back to B's 5-yd line, half the distance to goal, chains are set and B starts 1st 10 from own 5-yard line. Clean hands or dirty hands only is an issue if there is a change of possession during the down. A failed to make line to gain...B gets ball and is penalized from succeeding spot since the foul was a dead ball foul.

Who's buying the adult beverages? The dirty hands guys? or the B gets the ball on own 5-yard line guys?

B 1/10 at B5 yard line. B didn't have dirty hands when they gained possession of the ball. (Dirty hands people owe beverages.)

[JRutledge]

Do not make this complicated. Team A did not make the line to gain in 4 downs. Anything that happens after that in the NF game can be enforced, but is not going to give team A the first down. If something happen during a live ball that is a different story.

Peace

[HLin NC]

a year or two ago. I was on the clock so I got to watch A's coach come unglued when B was awarded the ball after 4th down and then penalized.

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA: AR 10-1-5-III

With fourth and eight, Team Agains four yards and the ball is
declared dead, after which B1 is called for piling on. RULING: Team
B personal foul. Penalty—15 yards from the succeeding spot. First
and 10 for Team B (Rule 5-1-1-c).

[JugglingReferee]

Take things in the order they happened:

Play is dead
Causes turnover on downs
Foul Occurs
Assess Penalty

[jontheref]

JR is correct. Had this on several occassions throughout the years and you only hope that you are miked because no one will figure out. The down ended on the tackle. All dead ball fouls are succeeding spot. Award the defense the ball on downs and mark off the dead ball foul. B gets the ball first and ten.