Case 3.3.6 Sit D

[palmettoref]

A1 is injured as the horns sounds to end the first quarter and the coach of Team A is beckoned by an official onto the court to attend to A5. RULING:
The intermission should begin when A5 is removed from the court. No substitute is required when A5 is ready to play to start the second quarter. When A5 is not ready, a substitute should report before the warning horn or a time out may be requested by Team A to keep A5 in the game.

I have several question here just to make sure that I am understanding the proper ruling on this case.

1. If team A coach waits until after the 45 sec warning horn to send a sub for A5, this does not prevent that sub from entering the game? Because we can't begin the second quarter with only 4 team A players, correct?

2. And if he decides at 55 seconds of the 1 minute intermission that he wants a time out to keep A5 in the game, can anyone think of why we would not grant that request?

I seems to think that if he wants a time out before the ball becomes live to begin the second quarter, then we should grant his request? Agree or disagree?

Any thought would be appreciated?

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by palmettoref

A1 is injured as the horns sounds to end the first quarter and the coach of Team A is beckoned by an official onto the court to attend to A5. RULING:
The intermission should begin when A5 is removed from the court. No substitute is required when A5 is ready to play to start the second quarter. When A5 is not ready, a substitute should report before the warning horn or a time out may be requested by Team A to keep A5 in the game.

I have several question here just to make sure that I am understanding the proper ruling on this case.

1. If team A coach waits until after the 45 sec warning horn to send a sub for A5, this does not prevent that sub from entering the game? Because we can't begin the second quarter with only 4 team A players, correct?

2. And if he decides at 55 seconds of the 1 minute intermission that he wants a time out to keep A5 in the game, can anyone think of why we would not grant that request?

I seems to think that if he wants a time out before the ball becomes live to begin the second quarter, then we should grant his request? Agree or disagree?

Any thought would be appreciated?

If A1's(A5???) situation can not be corrected by the end of intermission, the coach will need to sub for him/her. The Time out can be requested and granted. 5-11-5 & 5-11-7 are when you should not grant a time out.

[Scooby]

Why can't they start the quarter with 4 player?

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Why can't they start the quarter with 4 player?

3-1-1 note ....if a team has no substitutes to replace the disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five.

I read this as you must play with 5, unless there is nobody on the bench

Edit: Situation 3.1.1 covers this

[Adam]

Hmm. Seems to me the coach would have to decide whether to sub for A1 or use a TO before we start the intermission. Either that or the injury rules don't apply to injuries during intermissions and standard sub rules apply.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by palmettoref

A1 is injured as the horns sounds to end the first quarter and the coach of Team A is beckoned by an official onto the court to attend to A5. RULING:
The intermission should begin when A5 is removed from the court. No substitute is required when A5 is ready to play to start the second quarter. When A5 is not ready, a substitute should report before the warning horn or a time out may be requested by Team A to keep A5 in the game.

I have several question here just to make sure that I am understanding the proper ruling on this case.

1. If team A coach waits until after the 45 sec warning horn to send a sub for A5, this does not prevent that sub from entering the game? Because we can't begin the second quarter with only 4 team A players, correct?

2. And if he decides at 55 seconds of the 1 minute intermission that he wants a time out to keep A5 in the game, can anyone think of why we would not grant that request?

I seems to think that if he wants a time out before the ball becomes live to begin the second quarter, then we should grant his request? Agree or disagree?

Any thought would be appreciated?

My thoughts while trying to avoid being too wordy;

1. Correct. If the intermission ended and no sub had reported, I would expect the player to remain in the game. If coach informed me then that he was injured and could not go, I would inform him we need a sub. If he requested a TO, I would grant it. If not, I would start the timer.

2. I cannot think of any reason not to grant the TO.

IMO, I believe 3.3.6D means that a TO is not required to keep an injured player in the game. It does not mean that it is not available.

[BayStateRef]

I don't have this year's book, but this case play opens up an interesting scenario.

If the sub has not reported before the first horn (as required) and the injured player is not able to play to start the quarter, then what? It seems that you must allow the sub, even though that violates 3.3.1a (sub must report before first horn.)

[McMac]

My question is: Where in the RULE book does it say that an injury at the end of a quarter does not require replacement? I was trying to scan through and could not find it if it is there.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by palmettoref

A1 is injured as the horns sounds to end the first quarter and the coach of Team A is beckoned by an official onto the court to attend to A5.

If the quarter has ended, the coach doesn't need to be beckoned to enter the court, does he?

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the quarter has ended, the coach doesn't need to be beckoned to enter the court, does he?

The time-out area does not include the entire court. There are a couple of points in this case play.

• The intermission between quarters does not start until the injured player is removed from the court.
• Even though the coach was beckoned, the injured player may return if ready by the warning horn.
• If the injured player cannot return, the substitute must report by the warning horn.

The last point is a problem...because there is no sanction if the sub does not report in time. If the injured player cannot return, it does not matter when the substitute reports. He's coming into the game. The only penalty available when a substitute does not report in time is to forbid the sub from entering the game. There is no way we can require an injured player to return before the coach says he's ready.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

The last point is a problem...because there is no sanction if the sub does not report in time. If the injured player cannot return, it does not matter when the substitute reports. He's coming into the game. The only penalty available when a substitute does not report in time is to forbid the sub from entering the game. There is no way we can require an injured player to return before the coach says he's ready.

So if the sub (for the injured player) came in "late", would you let the other team counter with a sub? I would, even though it's not an "allowable time to substitute" (or whatever the rule book wording is).

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So if the sub (for the injured player) came in "late", would you let the other team counter with a sub? I would, even though it's not an "allowable time to substitute" (or whatever the rule book wording is).

I've thought about this...and decided the rule does not allow this.

If a sub reports at the last second (but before the warning horn), there is no provision for the other team to counter. That is how I am going to handle this.

So I am going to (only) bring in the sub for the injured player...until the NFHS says otherwise.

[Adam]

I'd bring them all in based on the precedent of injured and dq'd players during FTs.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

I've thought about this...and decided the rule does not allow this.

If a sub reports at the last second (but before the warning horn), there is no provision for the other team to counter. That is how I am going to handle this.

So I am going to (only) bring in the sub for the injured player...until the NFHS says otherwise.

I disagree. Before the warning horn both teams have equal opportunity to send subs to the table so it's not the same.

If you were to deny the opposing team to bring in a sub to counter in this situation are you also going deny the opposing team to bring in a 'counter' sub if you had to stop live play due to an injured player?

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I disagree. Before the warning horn both teams have equal opportunity to send subs to the table so it's not the same.

If you were to deny the opposing team to bring in a sub to counter in this situation are you also going deny the opposing team to bring in a 'counter' sub if you had to stop live play due to an injured player?

The rule is different. During a dead ball (which is what you have once you stop play for the injured player) subs can report until the ball is about to become live.

The case play is between quarters...not the last play of the game. I understand your point; there simply is no rule that allows it. There has been a constant refrain at both the NFHS and NCAA to enforce the rules as written and not for individuals to substitute their judgment for the rules. This case book play should have foreseen this problem and answered it.