Case 3.3.6 Sit D

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by k_st8r

Bottom line..... Player is hurt.... dead ball...... end of period or not.... prior to putting ball into play, if there is a player at the scorers table, your going to wave them in, if the coach requests a time out, your going to grant it. Teams are not "required" to have five players on the court. What am I missing??? sometimes people read too much into the rules instead of using common sense. Only issue I see here is the possible delay of game, should the team with the hurt player not take the court when prompted by the horn. after a second verbal request, in most cases the coach breaks the huddle or calls the time out. In closing......even though the rules state 1 minute between quarters... in the 1,000's of games I have done, i have NEVER timed the breaks between quarters... half time yes, quarters no.
When all else fails use common sense....in adding.... warning horns are hit and miss... in as varsity game, you might have consistency in the horns, any other level, horns are suspect, if not not existant.

1) Teams are required to have 5 players, if they have 5 available. See 3.1.1 for example

2) The time between quarters is always timed here at the varsity level, and will be done at lower levels if you ask them to.

3) Tell the table at the lower levels to give you wa warning horn. Then count to 15 and ask for a second horn.

[k_st8r]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) Teams are required to have 5 players, if they have 5 available. See 3.1.1 for example

2) The time between quarters is always timed here at the varsity level, and will be done at lower levels if you ask them to.

3) Tell the table at the lower levels to give you wa warning horn. Then count to 15 and ask for a second horn.

I agree.. by "required" i meant there are situations where less than five are allowed. injury, disq, etc.. I see where that was not effectively conveyed. I concur and apologize for not stating it clearly.

HS varsity horns are a non-issue.
conveying warning horns in "other" levels...can/could probably do so, but most scorer's have enough on their plate...LOL IMO.....
Again HS jv fre,soph... sure

[APG]

Originally Posted by k_st8r

HS varsity horns are a non-issue.
conveying warning horns in "other" levels...can/could probably do so, but most scorer's have enough on their plate...LOL IMO.....
Again HS jv fre,soph... sure

Even with levels below varsity in high school, it's not that hard to get that minute between quarters timed. You're doing the exact same thing you would do if a team called a full timeout...put 60 seconds on the board and get a warning horn with 15 seconds left.

[Adam]

Bob already addressed this, but I want to add a couple things.

Originally Posted by k_st8r

Bottom line..... Player is hurt.... dead ball...... end of period or not.... prior to putting ball into play, if there is a player at the scorers table, your going to wave them in, if the coach requests a time out, your going to grant it. Teams are not "required" to have five players on the court. What am I missing??? sometimes people read too much into the rules instead of using common sense. Only issue I see here is the possible delay of game, should the team with the hurt player not take the court when prompted by the horn. after a second verbal request, in most cases the coach breaks the huddle or calls the time out. In closing......even though the rules state 1 minute between quarters... in the 1,000's of games I have done, i have NEVER timed the breaks between quarters... half time yes, quarters no.

In another thread, you said 15-20% of your games are high school. In yet another thread you lead us to believe you work varsity games. 20% of thousands would be at least 400. Are you saying in 400 high school games, you've never worked a game where they've properly timed the quarter breaks?

And this crap about reading too much into the rules is often code for, "I played for 20 years. I know enough about the rules, I don't need to read the book."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

...
And this crap about reading too much into the rules is often code for, "I played for 20 years. I know enough about the rules, I don't need to read the book."

Or code for "I'm new to the scene and I don't know how you guys survived without my insight and guidance before I popped up."

[k_st8r]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Bob already addressed this, but I want to add a couple things.

In another thread, you said 15-20% of your games are high school. In yet another thread you lead us to believe you work varsity games. 20% of thousands would be at least 400. Are you saying in 400 high school games, you've never worked a game where they've properly timed the quarter breaks?

And this crap about reading too much into the rules is often code for, "I played for 20 years. I know enough about the rules, I don't need to read the book."

In my years of officiating Entering season #9 (1,000's of games)for clarification. I ref any and all basketball, all levels, all year long. I have done probably 200-300 HS(sanctioned state HIgh school) level games, if I had to guess, and only Varsity gets it right...JV fresh/Soph not so much..... if in one given season you do 300-400 games roughly 20-50 at most are varsity...leaving roughly 75% NOt clocked/scored correctly. I gather the fact that most refrences here are HS basketball.... The point I keep trying to make.. is that HS basketball is a small fraction of the basketball officiated. Frankly, I don't think I know any basketball official that "ONLY DOES HS VARSITY" basketball. I am sure there are some out there.

In closing... "I haven't played for twenty years, and don't need to read the book." I played through HS... Coached 3 boys, all grown....Have been Officiating for going into season #9 and do more games in one year than most do in 2-3 ... because I work almost every day/night year round doing any game, including adult rec/litttle kids...that no else wants to do, or are too good to do. I also Officiate Football/Baseball/Lacrosse. I read the rules all the time. Sounds to me you only do HS and have removed yourself for the most part from the rest of basketball, which is where most of the basketball world exists. Because you sound shocked that timing of quarters doesn't happen. In my world timing of quarters and warning buzzers are a luxury only afforded to Varsity HS ball. Maybe it is a function of geography??? Regardless I find interesting, the curt tone, and wonder Why the angst??
I come on here to hopefully learn a thing or two I don't know or misunderstand, in order to improve, and yet get my integrity questioned.

I'm guessin, you are a real pleasure as a partner on the court.

I don't care if I am right or wrong...I just want to get it right

footnote.... have done roughly 1000 games in the last 18 months alone.

[Adam]

No, I work other levels. But you said you'd "never" worked a game where the quarter breaks were timed. I see now that was simply hyperbole.

I know how it works in AAU, YMCA, etc. I also know, however, that around here, all high school subvarsity levels (F, S, JV) have fairly competent timers that are quite capable of properly timing the quarter breaks.

[k_st8r]

MUST be geographical...can't find a decent scorer outside of the big HSchools
around here.. Yesterday I had to throw the 2 scorers at the table out and have them replaced for fighting...LOL

[Adam]

Originally Posted by k_st8r

footnote.... have done roughly 1000 games in the last 18 months alone.

Footnote: no one cares. It's not as impressive as you may think.

[k_st8r]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Footnote: no one cares. It's not as impressive as you may think.

not trying to be impressive, just qualifying I'm not a rookie and maybe 9 seasons isn't alot, but Nothing beats court time...and in some cases this is a potential liability.

[letemplay]

1000 games? By my math, that's about 1.8 games every day...EVERY DAY...for 18 months...I realize many of these are probably stacks of weekend AAU tourney games etc..but that's a lot of miles. No wonder you don't want to read into the rules too much!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by k_st8r

... because I work almost every day/night year round doing any game, including adult rec/litttle kids...that no else wants to do, or are too good to do. ...

Or because we have a life outside of officiating.

[k_st8r]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Or because we have a life outside of officiating.

touche!!