Make The Call

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

4-23
ART. 2...To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

Two feet on the floor and torso facing the defender...if your torso is facing the defender, then invariably your torso must be in the path of the player.

Not true. I can have two feet on the floor and be facing you from any one of many directions. Only one of those directions is in the path.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not true. I can have two feet on the floor and be facing you from any one of many directions. Only one of those directions is in the path.

Shut up Camron*

*You're right


4-23 Guarding
ART. 1...Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Shut up Camron*

*You're right


4-23 Guarding
ART. 1...Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent...

And that is why the above play would be a block in NFHS...neither player had their body in the path before the opponent was airborne. They only had the feet in the path.

And even in the US, I'm NOT calling this a block since the airborne player dumped the ball off to a teammate who was in great position for a very short range shot....either getting 2 points or getting fouled while shooting. Calling that block would penalize the offensive team.

[Pantherdreams]

Here are the appropriate fiba rules:


33.3 Legal guarding position
A defensive player has established an initial legal guarding position when:
 He is facing his opponent, and
 He has both feet on the floor.
The legal guarding position extends vertically above him (cylinder) from the floor to the ceiling. He may raise his arms and hands above his head or jump vertically but he must maintain them in a vertical position inside the imaginary cylinder.


33.6 A player who is in the air
A player who has jumped into the air from a place on the playing court has the right to land again at the same place.
He has the right to land on another place on the playing court provided that the landing place and the direct path between the take-off and landing place is not already occupied by an opponent(s) at the time of take-off.
If a player has taken off and landed but his momentum causes him to contact an opponent who has taken a legal guarding position beyond the landing place, the jumper is responsible for the contact.
An opponent may not move into the path of a player after that player has jumped into the air. Moving under a player who is in the air and causing contact is usually an unsportsmanlike foul and in certain circumstances may be a disqualifying foul.


33.8 Charging
Charging is illegal personal contact, with or without the ball, by pushing or moving into an opponent’s torso.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Here are the appropriate fiba rules:

...

Appears to be the same (but you didn't quote the basic definition of guarding where the key element is located in the NFHS rules). If, in NFHS rules, B5 is not in the path, B5 is not even guarding, much less possessing LGP.

Assuming the video is the official interpretation of being in the spot, it looks like FIBA only requires the feet to be in the spot to have satisfied the part about being in the path where then NFHS requires the body to be in the path.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Appears to be the same (but you didn't quote the basic definition of guarding where the key element is located in the NFHS rules). If, in NFHS rules, B5 is not in the path, B5 is not even guarding, much less possessing LGP.

Assuming the video is the official interpretation of being in the spot, it looks like FIBA only requires the feet to be in the spot to have satisfied the part about being in the path where then NFHS requires the body to be in the path.

Here you go:

33.4 Guarding a player who controls the ball
When guarding a player who controls (holding or dribbling) the ball, the elements of
time and distance do not apply.
The player with the ball must expect to be guarded and must be prepared to stop or
change his direction whenever an opponent takes an initial legal guarding position
in front of him, even if this is done within a fraction of a second.
The guarding (defensive) player must establish an initial legal guarding position
without causing contact before taking his position.
Once the defensive player has established an initial legal guarding position, he may
move to guard his opponent, but he may not extend his arms, shoulders, hips or legs
to prevent the dribbler from passing by him.
When judging a charge/block situation involving a player with the ball, an official
shall use the following principles:
 The defensive player must establish an initial legal guarding position by facing
the player with the ball and having both feet on the floor.
 The defensive player may remain stationary, jump vertically, move laterally or
backwards in order to maintain the initial legal guarding position.
 When moving to maintain the initial legal guarding position, one foot or both
feet may be off the floor for an instant, as long as the movement is lateral or
backwards, but not towards the player with the ball.
 Contact must occur on the torso, in which case the defensive player would be
considered as having been at the place of contact first.
 Having established a legal guarding position the defensive player may turn
within his cylinder to avoid injury.
In any of the above situations, the contact shall be considered as having been
caused by the player with the ball.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

For some reason I could not get the video to play on the full screen so I had to watch it on the small screen. That said, first, the definitions of guarding and screening for NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA are identical with the only deference being that the NFHS rules use the word "obtain" when defining a LGP and the NCAA and FIBA rules use the word "establish" which the NFHS use to use also. And every FIBA Casebook Play that I have read regarding legal and illegal contact during guarding and screening situations are consistent with NFHS and NCAA rulings.

Second, as I watched the video I observed the play as if I was the L. From that perspective W1 (the player to the L's left) established a LGP, but W2 (the player to the L's right) did not establish his position on the court until after B1 went airborne, AND it appeared to me that B1 made contact with W2 before making any contact with W1. Therefore W2 committed a blocking foul.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. And I am not making my decision based upon the fact that B1 is wearing the Royal Blue color of the Royal Family of the Kingdom of Italy, .