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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 08:10am
Al Al is offline
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Did I Make The Right Call?

Hi all,

Tuesday night in a T-Ball game I was BU. There was a runner on 1st and 2nd with no outs. The batter hit a pretty fast roller towards shortstop. It passed the pitcher and another fielder, but neither was able to get close enough to stop it. The runner from 2nd was about 7 feet or so off 2nd base on his way to 3rd when the ball hit his foot. There was a fielder directly behind him just inside the outfield grass (the outfielders are all allowed to play inside the grass in our T-Ball league) when the ball hit his foot. The ball keep rolling to the outfield, only more towards left field than left/center where a different fielder went after the ball. I am wondering if I shouldn't have called the runner out because the fast pitch rule book, which we use for T-Ball as well except, of course, for things that don't apply such as stealing etc. says "if another infielder has a possible play" then the runner would be out. Anyway, since the outfielders play at infield depth I called the runner out and let the play go on. DDB. All three runners kept running and the girl I called out crossed the plate by the time the ball was back to the circle. The other two runners were just starting to pass 3rd and 2nd base. So I judged that both runners would have probably ended up there had the ball never been deflected. (It's rare at this age that a ball is fielded cleanly and thrown back to the circle or to a base to stop the lead runner.) So I'm wondering if I should consider the outfielders as infielders being they play inside the green? I got no arguments at all for the out call and placing the other runners at 3rd and 2nd. But getting no arguments doesn't always mean it was the right call. And it's the right call I want to make. What would you have done? I sure would like to be more sure should this happen again, especially if it happens in a close game where that call could make a win or loss. ...Thanks, ...Al
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 10:08am
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Originally Posted by Al
Hi all,

Tuesday night in a T-Ball game I was BU. There was a runner on 1st and 2nd with no outs. The batter hit a pretty fast roller towards shortstop. It passed the pitcher and another fielder, but neither was able to get close enough to stop it. The runner from 2nd was about 7 feet or so off 2nd base on his way to 3rd when the ball hit his foot. There was a fielder directly behind him just inside the outfield grass (the outfielders are all allowed to play inside the grass in our T-Ball league) when the ball hit his foot. The ball keep rolling to the outfield, only more towards left field than left/center where a different fielder went after the ball. I am wondering if I shouldn't have called the runner out because the fast pitch rule book, which we use for T-Ball as well except, of course, for things that don't apply such as stealing etc. says "if another infielder has a possible play" then the runner would be out. Anyway, since the outfielders play at infield depth I called the runner out and let the play go on. DDB. All three runners kept running and the girl I called out crossed the plate by the time the ball was back to the circle. The other two runners were just starting to pass 3rd and 2nd base. So I judged that both runners would have probably ended up there had the ball never been deflected. (It's rare at this age that a ball is fielded cleanly and thrown back to the circle or to a base to stop the lead runner.) So I'm wondering if I should consider the outfielders as infielders being they play inside the green? I got no arguments at all for the out call and placing the other runners at 3rd and 2nd. But getting no arguments doesn't always mean it was the right call. And it's the right call I want to make. What would you have done? I sure would like to be more sure should this happen again, especially if it happens in a close game where that call could make a win or loss. ...Thanks, ...Al
No, if you ruled interference the ball is dead immediately, no further play is allowed.
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 10:23am
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And you probably don't have interference on this play at all. An opportunity for a play DOES mean a chance to complete an out, not just a chance to retrieve the ball. This ball passed 2 fielders. Depending on your ruleset, this might be BY RULE not interference... and if that is not the case, depending on your ruleset, then even if F7 had a chance to catch up to the ball, did he/she have a PLAY? Probably not.

I'm confused by which set of rules you are using. You state T-Ball, and "he" as the runner, and also state that you use "fast pitch" rules.

Which rules, really, are you using as your base set of rules? (ASA, OBR, Fed BB, Fed SB, etc)
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 10:47am
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
No, if you ruled interference the ball is dead immediately, no further play is allowed.
Mike,

I should have known that was the case. So the correct call would be to call the runner out (dead ball) and keep the runners on 1st and 2nd. I've gotten the OBS fully understood and little by little I am getting interference clear in my mind. That's why I'm so glad I found this forum! So not only an out for interference to the person who lost their chance at fielding the ball, but they cannot advance runners. That makes sense. I blew the call, and nobody knew it, or at least nobody said anything, including my partner! But that's one more play I'll never mess up again thanks to you! ...Thanks, Mike. ...Al
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 11:23am
Al Al is offline
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Originally Posted by mcrowder
And you probably don't have interference on this play at all. An opportunity for a play DOES mean a chance to complete an out, not just a chance to retrieve the ball. This ball passed 2 fielders. Depending on your ruleset, this might be BY RULE not interference... and if that is not the case, depending on your ruleset, then even if F7 had a chance to catch up to the ball, did he/she have a PLAY? Probably not.

I'm confused by which set of rules you are using. You state T-Ball, and "he" as the runner, and also state that you use "fast pitch" rules.

Which rules, really, are you using as your base set of rules? (ASA, OBR, Fed BB, Fed SB, etc)
Hi Mcrowder,

Our T-Ball league is mixed boys and girls and we don't have a rule book for T-Ball, but we use the USSSA fast/pitch rules except for things like stealing or bunting, of course. Those rules say if a ball passes the pitcher and another fielder there's no interference...Unless there is another infielder that could have made the play behind the interfering runner. But I understand what you are saying that the fielder behind the runner probably didn't have a play taken away from her unless she was able to get a force out at 2nd or 3rd if had there been no interference. But that would mean a perfectly played ball, throw and catch. That's rare so I should not have called the runner out even though the ball was deflected. I don't know how something so simple can seem so confusing! It sure helps getting some real life experience and sound instruction that I get from you and others. I'll now make sure there is a play taken away from the fielder before calling interference, and if I judge that to be the case and call interference I need to call dead ball as Mike said. I love learning! It makes it more fun, and gives more value to the game to go on the field being sure of what I'm calling! The way it worked out I gave the offense an out they should not have gotten, but with that mistake I made another mistake and allowed the runners to advance. Nothin' like fun at the ole' ball park ...Thanks! ... Al
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 01:53pm
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I had a similar situation in a PeeWee 8U game a month ago where tensions were high with the top 2 teams in the league playing. R2 was running between 2nd and 3rd near the outfield grass when she was struck by the ball with no fielders near to make a play on the ball. I did not call her out and 2 runs scored to end the game. It would have been easy to make the call and no arguments would have ensued - as it was the winners were happy but everyone thought we got the call wrong. I've heard it argued that any fielder can make a play like a RF to 1B out but don't think I'd make that call. If an infielder had been anywhere near her I'd have made the out call.
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 03:05pm
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Al,
You are ONE brave person. Trying to learn the rulebook by officiating T-ball games can be a real challenge!!
My only real advice to you here is this........Don't stand in a place where the batter can hit you with a bat!

Keep working hard, read and re-read your rule book and enjoy watching the little ones play.

My kids are now 24 and 21. My daughter (the 21 year old) is a college softball player and plays at a very high level. She's been fortunate enough to play in the last 3, D-III NCAA WCWS. Still, some of our best memories of her ball playing career come from T-Ball.

Enjoy!!
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 03:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al
Tuesday night in a T-Ball game I was BU.
Everytime you post one of your game situations, Al, I can't get past having a 2 man crew for T-ball! We can't even manage 2 man for the vast majority of our travel ball games. Calling 14-18U travel teams one man sure keeps you sharp!
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Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 10:35pm
Al Al is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSABlue
Al,
You are ONE brave person. Trying to learn the rulebook by officiating T-ball games can be a real challenge!!
My only real advice to you here is this........Don't stand in a place where the batter can hit you with a bat!

Keep working hard, read and re-read your rule book and enjoy watching the little ones play.

My kids are now 24 and 21. My daughter (the 21 year old) is a college softball player and plays at a very high level. She's been fortunate enough to play in the last 3, D-III NCAA WCWS. Still, some of our best memories of her ball playing career come from T-Ball.

Enjoy!!
NSABlue,

I tell ya I'm having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have, and getting paid for it! These T-ball kids are so funny. Tonight, I pointed over to the first base coach and pointed to her dugout to show her two of her kids were on the outside of the dugout. She called out "Rattler's get back in the dugout!". So I see the two kids going back into the dugout and notice one more walking towards the dugout. It was the batter. He was only listening to his coach. LOL... Then in the next game a large grass hopper is on the field and the first baseman has all his attention on every move it made. Pretty soon the grasshopper is on the first base line. Of course when the ball is hit he goes running down the base line to save the grasshopper from getting stepped on by the runner. Gotta love this age group. I told my wife about that grasshopper and she said I should have called Time Out and got it off the field...like it was a dog or something.

I know what you mean about standing too close to a kid with a bat in his hand. I watch the kids like a hawk. As you know catchers love to take part in any way they can (like putting the ball on the Tee) but I don't let them get close to batters. And I find I am saying "don't swing the bat" plenty of times each game. And at least a couple of times the coach would have gotten whacked by an anxious batter if I wasn't watching their backs.

Softball... the best game in the world. Enjoy watching your daughter play and someday maybe you will be one of those grandparents behind the backstop cheering on one of your grandkids. You may end up being a T-ball coach. I did that for a year. It was a blast and I run across one of the "lady bugs" from time to time and they still make me feel better than a king! Later, ...Al
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