Intentional Fouls

[tref]

I hear you, I guess what I'm saying is whether a player intended to foul someone or not isnt what we judge on. I think its more of the act itself & the result.

Team A has the ball OOB for a throw-in, before the pass is released B1 stumbles & knocks down A1. The official blows the whistle, what type of foul is this?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

I hear you, I guess what I'm saying is whether a player intended to foul someone or not isnt what we judge on. I think its more of the act itself & the result.

No...we actually do have to make that decision. A lot of people may say otherwise, but there is no way to apply the rule if you don't.

You can't decide if the play was designed to stop the clock if you don't consider intent.

Originally Posted by tref

Team A has the ball OOB for a throw-in, before the pass is released B1 stumbles & knocks down A1. The official blows the whistle, what type of foul is this?

I'm not calling it intentional...because it wasn't.

If this is in the closing seconds of a close game with B behind by 1 and you don't call this as intentional, you've just considered intent even if you don't use the word intent.

[tref]

Okay, okay... I still get you Camron.

I'm sure you've Xd a player many times just to hear the offenders coach/fans say, "but he didn't try to do it!"
And I get where they are coming from, how can it be an intentional when he didnt intend to do anything.

NCAA-M is going to flagrant 1 & 2 for this reason.

So yeah, intent does have something to do with it! Intent just isnt the only factor we go on. A player can indeed be charged with an INT for things they accidently do that happens to result in severe contact.
May or may not...

How about that

[mbyron]

I really don't understand why people have this misconception that we can't tell others' intentions in acting. We do this all the time, every day. Most commonly, we determine what others intend with their words, gestures, facial expressions, and body language. We decide whether someone intends a post or remark as ironic (smilies help). We figure out when someone is a threat, or a pest, or interested in us. The only people who struggle to figure out others' intentions are the autistic: this is in fact the hallmark of autism.

Reading intentions on the basketball court is all in a day's work.

[Toren]

I had an intentional foul in a girls summer league game, probably 6th or 7th grade, where I told the coach that her player, A5 had thrown and connected with an elbow (I was actually really close to upgrading this to a flagrant). I thought it was pretty clear cut as a minimum intentional. The coach argued that she teaches that. So I quickly explained that her elbows cannot move faster than her upper body and that if she is teaching that it is bad coaching.

In retrospect, I would never have answered the coach the same way at a higher level. And I'm pretty much regretting saying anything beyond what call I had, I'm thinking a dialogue wasn't needed.

Anyone have any great talking points they have used for an intentional foul?

[APG]

I make it a point not to critique how or what a coach coaches...it's only fair if you don't want a coach trying to tell you how to officiate a game. I would have just told the coach that their player was excessively swinging the elbows and caused excessive contact.

[JRutledge]

If we call an intentional foul based on intent and intent alone, then we would call every foul at the end of the game an intentional foul when a team is fouling strategically. This one of the reasons the NCAA got away from that language and called a foul a "Flagrant 1" instead. You can still be called for an intentional foul and not intentionally foul an opponent.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Toren

I had an intentional foul in a girls summer league game, probably 6th or 7th grade, where I told the coach that her player, A5 had thrown and connected with an elbow (I was actually really close to upgrading this to a flagrant). I thought it was pretty clear cut as a minimum intentional. The coach argued that she teaches that. So I quickly explained that her elbows cannot move faster than her upper body and that if she is teaching that it is bad coaching.

In retrospect, I would never have answered the coach the same way at a higher level. And I'm pretty much regretting saying anything beyond what call I had, I'm thinking a dialogue wasn't needed.

Anyone have any great talking points they have used for an intentional foul?

Middle School or AAU, I might respond with, "you might want to reconsider that." More likely I just walk away. High School, just walk away.

[Toren]

Thanks for the comments.

I'm not very good at speaking to coaches yet, so I think while I learn to get better, I will just keep quiet and say very little.

I will keep my talking to spring and summer leagues