You Make The Call

[APG]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

Thanks tref, I am here to learn. I understand LGP and continuous motion I am not using one over the other. I am using them together.
Aren’t they to be used but together?
Please would you point out the case play once more?
Thanks!

4-11 Continuous Motion

ART. 1...Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by a defensive player during the interval which beings when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.
ART. 2...If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movements, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

Continuous motion and LGP have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

4-11 Continuous Motion

ART. 1...Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by a defensive player during the interval which beings when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.
ART. 2...If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movements, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

Continuous motion and LGP have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

If B1 did not gain LGP like in this play then we allow A1 to continue with his shoot. Because B1 has fouled A1.
They something to do with each other, right?

[APG]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

If B1 did not gain LGP like in this play then we allow A1 to continue with his shoot. Because B1 has fouled A1.
They something to do with each other, right?

We allow A1 to continue with his try because he was fouled while in the act of shooting...just like we would anytime. That's all that continuous motion deals with...whether a basket will count due to a defense foul during the act of shooting. It doesn't tell us that a defender must be there prior to the gather. The End.

The only rule that deals with LGP and when a defensive player has to obtain it in regards to an airborne player has been posted 3 times already...it's must be obtained before a player is airborne.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

We allow A1 to continue with his try because he was fouled while in the act of shooting...just like we would anytime. That's all that continuous motion deals with...whether a basket will count due to a defense foul during the act of shooting. It doesn't tell us that a defender must be there prior to the gather. The End.

The only rule that deals with LGP and when a defensive player has to obtain it in regards to an airborne player has been posted 3 times already...it's must be obtained before a player is airborne.

Rule 4-23 tells us how to guard legally and how obtain LGP and in order to know if LGP was obtained Rule 4-41 tells us when the act of shooting begins.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

Rule 4-23 tells us how to guard legally and how obtain LGP and in order to know if LGP was obtained Rule 4-41 tells us when the act of shooting begins.

What if A1 passes the ball while airbornre before crashing into B1? When did B1 need to have established LGP?

[APG]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

Rule 4-23 tells us how to guard legally and how obtain LGP and in order to know if LGP was obtained Rule 4-41 tells us when the act of shooting begins.

And? I feel like I must be speaking another language because this rule is so simply as to not need the 20 or so responses we've had to it.

The whole reason we have rule 4-41 and the act of shooting defined is because we have rule 4-11 that deals with continuous motion that tells us a try will count if an offensive player is fouled during the act of shooting. Nowhere does any of the guarding rules mention the act of shooting/try. All the guarding rules have told us is if a player has the ball, a defender has to obtain LGP before the player is airborne. Nothing more, nothing less.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

And? I feel like I most be speaking another language because this rule is so simply as to not need the 20 or so responses we've had to it.

The whole reason we have rule 4-41 and the act of shooting defined is because we have rule 4-11 that deals with continuous motion that tells us a try will count if an offensive player is fouled during the act of shooting. Nowhere does any of the guarding rules mention the act of shooting/try. All the guarding rules have told us is if a player has the ball, a defender has to obtain LGP before the player is airborne. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks?
I am still maintaining what i have from the start. B1 did not have LGP.

[Raymond]

I have never read that a defender must establish LGP before a shooter begins his shooting motion. I have always thought it must be established before A1 gets airborne. I've been wrong all these years? If so I would really appreciate a word-for-word citation so I can stand corrected.

Here is the college rule, I guess HS rules are different in regards to airborne shooters

Rule 4-35:
Art. 4. To establish an initial legal guarding position on the player with the
ball:
a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.
d. When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court.Exception: (Men) Rule 4-35.7

Art. 5. To establish legal guarding position on a player without the ball:
a. Time and distance shall be required to attain an initial legal position;
b. The guard shall give the opponent the time and distance to avoid
contact;
c. The distance given by the opponent of the player without the ball need not be more than two strides; and
d. When the opponent is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court.

[Adam]

The only rules that apply to defending an airborne opponent are 4-23-4 and 4-23-5. What youre missing is anything that ties LGP to the shooting motion. You cant just find two separate rules and combine them on a whim.

[APG]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

Thanks?
I am still maintaining what i have from the start. B1 did not have LGP.

I'm not speaking specifically about this play. I'm talking about your general statement that a defender must obtain a legal position before the ball is gathered which is incorrect.