Need help Technical before Jump

[Mrcrash3]

Girls Varsity, starters are on the court, prior to ball becoming live. As the referee approaches the jump circle B5 taunts A5 You B$tchez are going down.
So B5 gets whacked. Since the ball is not live we have a tech on B5.
Would this also be an indirect on the coach, is B5 still bench personnel?
If so would the coach get the seat belt. Would anyone be able to help?
I tried the search feature and no luck. I'll take the case or rules to look this up myself thanks in advance.

[Camron Rust]

The question to be asked here is when does pregame (or intermissions) end.

You are still in the pregame/intermission until the quarter starts. The quarter begins when the ball becomes live to start the quarter. The ball becomes live when the ball leaves the referee's hand(s) on the toss. It also becomes live when it is at the disposal of a thrower if the quarter doesn't begin with a toss.

So, until the ball is tossed, you're still in the pregame and the coach gets the indirect T with B5.

[BktBallRef]

I have to disagree with Camron.

4-34-1 states,
A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court at any given time, except intermission.

5-5-1 states,
Playing time for teams of high school age shall be four quarters of eight minutes each with intermissions of one minute after the first and third quarters, and 10 minutes between halves.


Once the 5 starters take the floor, the time placed on the clock for pre-game has expired, this is not an intermission, and they are now players from everything I read. Unless someone can supply a case play or interp that says differently, I'm not assessing an indirect T to the head coach.

[Mrcrash3]

Cameron and BktBallref
Thank you for the replies. I have a place to start. I was leaning toward Cameron's Answer, but now Bktballref's answer seems right with his rule cites.
This was a situation I started thinking about and could not come up with the answer
Much appreciated

[APG]

I agree with BktballRef's take on the play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I agree with BktballRef's take on the play.

Me too. But I wouldn't throw a fit if an official presented a coach with an indirect on the play.

[bainsey]

I'm leaning toward BBR's take, as well.

Bear in mind, the point of the indirect foul is for a head coach to "control his bench." The five desginated starters aren't on the bench.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm leaning toward BBR's take, as well.

Bear in mind, the point of the indirect foul is for a head coach to "control his bench." The five desginated starters aren't on the bench.

Neither are team members during warmups nor are players who become bench personnel when time expires to end a quarter/half. The cases tell us that they are bench personnel even while still on the court starting the moment the ball becomes dead to end the quarter. So, why should they become players just by stepping on the court before a period begins. That would be completely inconsistent with how they cease to be players.

Consider this point....up to what time can you penalize the change of a designated starter? When does a starter become a player? It is the same moment that it is too late to penalize for the change of a starter....when the ball becomes live to toss the ball.

5-5-1 defines intermission, not pregame. Even for intermission it declares it to be the time between the 8 minute periods (and that it should be 1 minute). That would be the time up to the point where the 8 minute quarter begins. If you're suggesting that the quarter should begin the moment the time expires and the "players" enter the court, I suggest you look at the following rule...

Rule 6 Live Ball and Dead Ball
Section 2 STARTING GAME/QUARTER
The game and each extra period begins when the ball becomes live as specified in 6-1-2 for a jump ball, throw-in or free throw.

If it is not intermission prior to this point, what is it?

I still assert that, according to 6-1-2, it is still pregame/intermission until the ball becomes live.

[bob jenkins]

IMO, give the indirect to the coach. Never pass up an opportunity to sit the coach.

Plus, the coach will be PO'd at the kid, the kid will have to run more at the next practice, and the kid will better learn the lesson.

[Mrcrash3]

Thank you everyone for the discussion.