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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 07:40pm
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Question

I had a HS Varsity game on Friday which had an interesting request from a coach. The home team just shot and made the last of two FT. There was a sub at the table, so obviously we stopped the game to bring in the sub after the made FT. But immediately after we brought the sub in, the visting team coach wanted us to bring the ball in on the opposite side of the lane than I was standing. I was the New Trail and was going to administer the throw-in and told the thrower that he could run the baseline in this situation. The coach starts asking, "we want it on the other side, we want the ball on the other side." I of course say no and hand the ball to the thrower, but right before I had the ball to the thrower I tell him, "You can move over there because you have the entire baseline." The coach starts screaming that I was wrong and because he kept saying, "Read the rulebook, read the rulebook," I then gave him a T.

Now here is the question, the rules state that after a made basket they can take the ball out anywhere along the baseline, but do I move and my partner's move to accomidate where I simply hand the ball in to the thrower? This is a 3 man crew also, so do we all move because they are insistent on taking the ball out on the right side instead of the left? I do not see any justification to move but to maybe accomidate the coaches request? Or is this our choice ultimately and we should ignore the coach?

Peace
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 08:04pm
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Exclamation

Rut,
After you read the rulebook, holding up the game for approximately two hours or more, T him up and tell him to sit the rest of the game. In my opinion after a made basket you would hand the ball in on the table side of the endline. Making your partners all switch would be foolish. Tell the coach to tell his player to run to the other side and run his play. I've never heard of a coach getting that carried away on a non issue such as this. He must have had a bad day at work or something like that.
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 08:44pm
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Two thoughts (besides the obvious that the coach is an idiot): 1)Maybe just a quick reminder "Coach! He can run the baseline!" would have calmed him down...2)Why not let him move over there and then bounce the ball across to him? Bouncing is permitted in Fed games...other than that, whack the idiot coach again!
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 08:47pm
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Lightbulb

I wouldn't have said "read the rule book", cuz then I'd be trying to show up the coach. I woulda just said, or yelled, "He can run it."
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 08:52pm
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Wink Tried that, did not work.

Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
Two thoughts (besides the obvious that the coach is an idiot): 1)Maybe just a quick reminder "Coach! He can run the baseline!" would have calmed him down...2)Why not let him move over there and then bounce the ball across to him? Bouncing is permitted in Fed games...other than that, whack the idiot coach again!
I had already told him that he could run the baseline. That did not make any difference to him. He insisted that I did not know what I was doing. That is when he started screaming.

And according to IHSA Mechanics, you cannot bounce the ball on the baseline. And you cannot ever bounce the ball across the lane during NF games, at least not according to the book. Your state might allow something different, but according to the NF Official's Manual, you can only bounce the ball to a thrower on your side of the lane.

Peace
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 10:30pm
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original post: "The home team just shot and made the last of two FT. There was a sub at the table, so obviously we stopped the game to bring in the sub after the made FT. But immediately after we brought the sub in, the visting team coach wanted us to bring the ball in on the opposite side of the lane than I was standing. I was the New Trail and was going to administer the throw-in and told the thrower that he could run the baseline in this situation."

There is only one correct way to administer this throw-in and that is for the "new" Trail to remain table side. There is no reason for the "new" Trail to go opposite the table for this throw-in. This also applies for the throw-in if a timeout had been request and granted before the this throw-in. The "new" Trail remains table side to administer the throw-in.

The "new" Trail will remain administer the throw-in from the table side in both scenarios whether the officiating crew is either a two-person or three-person and whether you are using NFHS or CCA/NCAA mechanics.
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 10:32pm
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Re: Tried that, did not work.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
Two thoughts (besides the obvious that the coach is an idiot): 1)Maybe just a quick reminder "Coach! He can run the baseline!" would have calmed him down...2)Why not let him move over there and then bounce the ball across to him? Bouncing is permitted in Fed games...other than that, whack the idiot coach again!
I had already told him that he could run the baseline. That did not make any difference to him. He insisted that I did not know what I was doing. That is when he started screaming.

And according to IHSA Mechanics, you cannot bounce the ball on the baseline. And you cannot ever bounce the ball across the lane during NF games, at least not according to the book. Your state might allow something different, but according to the NF Official's Manual, you can only bounce the ball to a thrower on your side of the lane.

Peace

JR: Just one question. Why does the IllinoisHSA not allow the Trail official to bounce the ball to the thrower-in for a backcourt throw-in on the baseline. NFHS and NCAA mechnics allow it.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 10:46pm
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Lightbulb Politically correct answer and the real answer.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge


JR: Just one question. Why does the IllinoisHSA not allow the Trail official to bounce the ball to the thrower-in for a backcourt throw-in on the baseline. NFHS and NCAA mechnics allow it.
I have two answers.

1) Mainly because officials tend to get lazy and leave the baseline because they can bounce the ball.

2) I understand that a specific clinician wanted to put his/her stamp in the mechanics. So because of this particular clinician or rules interpreter, they told us to do it this way. I have seen many games where officials might not do this "mechanic," but that is how we will be evaluated come playoff time.

Peace
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 11:04pm
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Rut

As you are aware, WI allows a bounce pass for administering a throw-in on the backcout endline, if there is no defensive pressure.

In fact, I observed the presentor of our mandatory "sports meeting" do this in a game earlier this season.
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Old Sun Jan 19, 2003, 11:10pm
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Lightbulb I was not aware of that.

Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
As you are aware, WI allows a bounce pass for administering a throw-in on the backcout endline, if there is no defensive pressure.

In fact, I observed the presentor of our mandatory "sports meeting" do this in a game earlier this season.

No I am not aware of that. But I do know that states allow different mechanics based on the State Clinicians/Rules Interpreters mandates.

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Old Mon Jan 20, 2003, 01:34am
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Why the coach just didn't have his player move after he got the ball (like you told him) is beyond me. He's making a huge issue out of nothing. I think you handled it fine.

Z
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Old Mon Jan 20, 2003, 09:01am
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I think you handled it well too, Rut.

I noticed my partner bounce passing on the endline last week and he would move 8-10 feet on the court and bounce it back to the thrower-in. I thought it looked terrible and didn't allow him to officiate the (token) pressure the defense was placing in the backcourt.

I only bounce the ball when I see it as an advantage to my officiating position.

Rich
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Old Mon Jan 20, 2003, 01:20pm
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Just a stupid question....
But who cares what side the ball comes in from? If the mechanic is not to bounce it (which by the way is idiotic in the backcourt that you cant) why not just go across the paint and give the player the ball?
I wasnt there but it seems to me that if you had said "ok coach" took three steps to the other side and put ball in play you could have avoided T's and evrything that goes along with one. what if he was pissed and picked up #2?

I cant imagine trying to write an incident report to the Association that stated the reason the whole situation was started was that I would not give the ball to the player on the other side of the paint...

The coach might be an idiot bu maybe he wanted his player at a certain spot, what if he knew there would be a press, they run a particular play, and he knew that you'd be in a better position to see wha was going on? If I can honor a reasonable request without breaking rules, I will. I'd think we'd want to do that. Save a lot more headaches than arguing over what spot it's coming in after a made basket..
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Old Mon Jan 20, 2003, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kelvin green
Just a stupid question....
But who cares what side the ball comes in from? If the mechanic is not to bounce it (which by the way is idiotic in the backcourt that you cant) why not just go across the paint and give the player the ball?
I wasnt there but it seems to me that if you had said "ok coach" took three steps to the other side and put ball in play you could have avoided T's and evrything that goes along with one. what if he was pissed and picked up #2?

I cant imagine trying to write an incident report to the Association that stated the reason the whole situation was started was that I would not give the ball to the player on the other side of the paint...

The coach might be an idiot bu maybe he wanted his player at a certain spot, what if he knew there would be a press, they run a particular play, and he knew that you'd be in a better position to see wha was going on? If I can honor a reasonable request without breaking rules, I will. I'd think we'd want to do that. Save a lot more headaches than arguing over what spot it's coming in after a made basket..

I have a better one for you. What if the rules do not support what you suggest? If the rules do not support this, what is to say during a designated spot throw-in, he would not want the us to move then? If the coach does not understand that does not have a choice, what other things is he going to request thinking the rules support him? I have officiated hundreds of games and coaches never asked to put the ball in a particular spot until now. All they ever do is ask "where will the ball be after the timeout." This is not football where after a touchdown where they get a choice on which hash mark to put the ball. I only asked this question to see what others would do. Kevin, if you are going to wait around for request after ever made basket, then so be it. I am not. This is not the choice of the coach and if he was smart, he would have listen to me and just had his kid run across the other side and throw the ball in.

This was a newer coach and it was illustrated by his actions. I also a week before had a coach try to get me to move during a 3 man game and I was standing directly in front of his bench. This was another silly younger coach (not by age, but by experience) who did not realize he could get off his butt and look around me. Or should know better than to have me move so I cannot see the play that is going on right in front of me.

BTW, I asked some other officials before coming here, and this coaches request was one of the dumbest they had heard in their careers.

Peace
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Old Tue Jan 21, 2003, 11:47am
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I never suggested doing anything that that rules dont allow. If you call something it is going to the nearest spot. If it's close where we can probably go either way I generally the sideline.

The rules do not explicitly offer a choice, but it doesnt prohibit it either...but they can run the baseline. I have never seen anything where it says we are supposed to be in one place or another to bring the ball inbounds.

I would not ever wait on a coach, however if a coach made a request that appears to be something I can accomodate him, I'll probably do it. I can be hardnosed if I want to be.

My point is that we as officials should not be so inflexible, or have to prove that we are right/the coaches are idiots...

If a coach was asking me to move while reffing a three-man game, I think'd I talk with him, not ridicule him.

I just think we have better things to do than prove we are right and then win the argument with the T
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