anoying travel rule

coach2 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 06:22am

Who is interested to see players at the highest level getting travelviolations at the start of their dribble?

Nobody.

So why don't the change this anoying rule (FIBA)

Who cares wether the ball leaves the hand before the pivot leaves the floor. Video shows referees and coaches make so many mistakes. Come on, lets make a point.

dhodges007 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 07:12am

Why do you hardly ever see this situation called. A1 is passed the ball, steps forward with the right foot and then his left (hits the floor) and then shoots.

By definition this should be a travel, however, I never see it called... do you?

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 08:22am

To answer the original question:

I care.

This move usually springs a player around a defender. I call this 100% of the time when I see it -- at all levels. The ball must be headed towards the floor to start a dribble before the pivot comes up.

As for the second situation -- I agree with the poster, but squaring up to shoot is generally accepted and doesn't really provide a great advantage like the original poster's situation.

Rich

Hawks Coach · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 02:01pm

I coach. I want it called. You can do lots of neat things on offense if we set aside a few rules. But being able to beat a defender legally is part of the beauty of the game.

And for whatever level people officiate, they should be capable of making the right call at the speed the game is played, or they shouldn't be reffing that level.

Ron · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 02:16pm

The coach of th team whose defender is burned by an illegal dribble drive cares. As an official, that's good enough for me. Tweet!

On the other hand, there are situations where a player will lift the pivot foot before dribbling where I haven't called the travel. In the backcourt, with no pressure, is an example of this.

coach2 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 07:22pm

thanks all folks,

nobody seems to have noticed the difference between the american and the european rule.

Witch is more anoying to watch?

Right the european rule.

It sucks and the old fossiel rule makers don't change it

I say speed the game up in Europe. Let the faster guys have more advantage. I don't care if we get 20 more points in a game.

Of course you are all perfect referees. Sure I made this tapes for many years. I tell you how it is interpreted: Fast boys get the most untrue violations.

Hawks Coach · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 08:51pm

What is the difference between the Euro and the American rule? We don't allow the pivot foot to be lifted before the dribble. Our officials may enforce differently, because the philosophy is if you are not certain it is a travel, it is not a travel. Am I missing some rule difference here - I am not an international rules expert.

Also, this is not about refs being perfect. Players, coaches, and refs all make errors. The higher you get, the less acceptable those mistakes are, for any participant and their role in the game. serious refs, and we have many here, work on their game so that they can make these calls right most of the time. In my experience here, fast players get away with more travels because it happens too quick to see, while really slow moves may result in erroneous travel calls because they end up looking sloppier, and therefore wrong (even if they aren't).

Jay R · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 09:39pm

I have no idea what this guy is talking about.
FIBA rule is the same as NCAA or NF as it pertains to the start of a dribble. Interpretation may be different?

mick · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 10:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by dhodges007
Why do you hardly ever see this situation called. A1 is passed the ball, steps forward with the right foot and then his left (hits the floor) and then shoots.

By definition this should be a travel, however, I never see it called... do you?

I call it after I miss the first one almost every third game.

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 11:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by dhodges007
Why do you hardly ever see this situation called. A1 is passed the ball, steps forward with the right foot and then his left (hits the floor) and then shoots.

By definition this should be a travel, however, I never see it called... do you?

Sounds to me like his right foot is his pivot.

Back In The Saddle · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 11:48pm

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Sounds to me like his right foot is his pivot.

Why would his right foot be his pivot foot. If he catches the pass (presumably with both feet on the floor), then steps with his right first, wouldn't that make his left foot his pivot foot?

BktBallRef · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 14, 2003, 12:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Originally posted by BktBallRef

Sounds to me like his right foot is his pivot.

Why would his right foot be his pivot foot. If he catches the pass (presumably with both feet on the floor), then steps with his right first, wouldn't that make his left foot his pivot foot?

Why do you presume both feet are on the floor? It doesn't say that. I answered based on what was written, not what I might presume.

Back In The Saddle · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 14, 2003, 12:54am

Good point. The detail seems unclear. So, what are the possibilities? He could have caught the ball with...

left foot on the floor, right in the air

right foot on the floor, left in the air

both feet on the floor

neither foot on the floor

In the first case, the left would be the pivot foot.

In the second, the right would be. However, the way it's worded makes this case seem less likely to me. He would be stepping forward with his left when catching the ball. (which is not what it says) Then stepping first with the right then the left. That leaves him covering a lot of ground and would be more obviously a travel than the other possibilities. I would discount this possibility.

If it were both feet, the left would be the pivot.

We don't have enough information to discuss the final option. It seems least likely to me, so I would discount it as well.

That leaves two plausible options, both of which would make the left foot the pivot foot. At least that's the way I read the question. Am I missing something?

canuckrefguy · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 14, 2003, 02:02am

Technically, at the Varsity level and higher, we probably see at least 20-30 travelling violations a game, because the players' feet are moving so quickly.

But often we choose to pass on the majority of them because (a) they're so bang-bang it's debatable whether they REALLY travelled, or (b) because no advantage was gained.

Most officials recognize when a player gains an advantage by violating the travel rule, or those that look SO BAD that we just HAVE to call it. In those sit's, we call it.

To me, this is no different than passing on ticky-tacky fouls. No one wants us calling 60 fouls a game. No one wants us to make 40 traveling calls either.

Having said that, I was at a camp last year where a coach was guest speaker...instead of a speech on coach/official relationship, we got a 1/2 hour lecture on how it burned him that we never call travelling on that quick guy coming around the screen, catching a pass, shuffling his feet, and nailing a 3-point shot. Go figure.

Nevadaref · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 14, 2003, 03:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
The ball must be headed towards the floor to start a dribble before the pivot comes up.

Technically, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. With the way many players push the ball forward with one hand in an attempt to get past the defender, this technicality makes a huge difference.