End of Game Question

[mi_ball]

Excellent. Odd that it would be a shooting foul that is awarded free throws but it is possible that the shot would not count if it went in. I guess conflicts like that will arise when dealing with so many possible situations.

[tref]

Originally Posted by mi_ball

Excellent. Odd that it would be a shooting foul that is awarded free throws but it is possible that the shot would not count if it went in. I guess conflicts like that will arise when dealing with so many possible situations.

Not really...

6-7-7

The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when a foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs

EXCEPTION: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:

c. occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball comes to rest in the player's hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mi_ball

Excellent. Odd that it would be a shooting foul that is awarded free throws but it is possible that the shot would not count if it went in. I guess conflicts like that will arise when dealing with so many possible situations.

It really isn't a conflict. If the "habitual shooting motion" has started then the player is in the act of shooting and would get his/her free throws. There are lots of times when the foul keeps the offensive player from releasing the shot, but they still get their free throws.

[Adam]

The other possibility (not part of the OP) is if the shooter "travels" after being fouled but before releasing the shot. The ball remains live on a foul if the shooting motion has begun, but the shooter's travel would make the ball dead.

[mi_ball]

Tref: so you are saying the shot would not have counted since the ball was not out of his hand? "provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight"

I accept that can be the correct call, I just thought it was odd that he would get free throws but no way for the shot to count even if it went in. symantics - i guess

Rocky: I see your point about many times the shot not getting released, etc but my point was that an attempt that was awarded freethrows did not have a way of counting if it went in (without any other violations - thanks Snak)

Mbyron: your point is not very satisfying even though it makes complete sense

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mi_ball

Tref: so you are saying the shot would not have counted since the ball was not out of his hand? "provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight"

I accept that can be the correct call, I just thought it was odd that he would get free throws but no way for the shot to count even if it went in. symantics - i guess

Rocky: I see your point about many times the shot not getting released, etc but my point was that an attempt that was awarded freethrows did not have a way of counting if it went in (without any other violations - thanks Snak)

Mbyron: your point is not very satisfying even though it makes complete sense

You are right, it's odd. It's odd because you likely never actually see it happen when the shot goes in. I wouldn't be surprised if most officials never have to call it, and that a certain percentage of those who did have the play might get it wrong.

Kinda like the 10 second free throw violation or a T for flopping; it might be a once-in-a-career call if at all.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mi_ball

Tref: so you are saying the shot would not have counted since the ball was not out of his hand? "provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight"

I accept that can be the correct call, I just thought it was odd that he would get free throws but no way for the shot to count even if it went in. symantics - i guess

Rocky: I see your point about many times the shot not getting released, etc but my point was that an attempt that was awarded freethrows did not have a way of counting if it went in (without any other violations - thanks Snak)

Mbyron: your point is not very satisfying even though it makes complete sense

Was he fouled in the act of shooting? Yes.

Did he get the shot off? No.

So, it's 2 (or 3) FTs. The same as any other time during the game when those two questions are answered in that way.

[tref]

Always listen to Bob!

[bainsey]

Have we established whether Team B was in the bonus/double bonus? That could be a reason why free throws were awarded, shooting foul or not.

[mi_ball]

If shot happens after the buzzer but no one is there to see it, did it actually happen?

Apparently - yes since he is shooting free throws due to a foul in the act of shooting. I know "act" is the key word... The start of the motion dictates the ability of the foul call but the ball must leave the hand for the shot to be considered capable of scoring. It's still a weird ruling even if it makes complete sense

Did I summarize that right?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mi_ball

Excellent. Odd that it would be a shooting foul that is awarded free throws but it is possible that the shot would not count if it went in. I guess conflicts like that will arise when dealing with so many possible situations.

The oddity arises because it's sometimes not possible to stop the clock before it expires. So if you have foul-horn-release, the shot doesn't count but the foul does. If no official has definite information about how much time should go on the clock, by rule none is put back up.

Sounds as if that's what happened in your game.