PSU vs ND game question

[raiderfan]

People keep asking me about the Personal Foul committed by ND during a PSU scrimmage kick. Was the penalty inforced correctly ? I didn't see the play so I cannot comment.

[psujaye]

PSU is punting; two ND players (after the kick i.e. the ball was in the air and the kicker had landed and was standing) knocked the punter over and held him down during the play. From where i was sitting (waay up), it looked like one of the ND players was actually punching the punter while he was on the ground. the R was standing over the play. I watched the whole incident from start to finish (I didn't follow the ball) it appeared that the R could've flagged it earlier or stepped toward the play since it appeared dirty (from where i was sitting/standing). Another PSU player toward the end of the play came in to defend the punter and he got his helmet ripped off by one of the 2 ND players. the R flagged a PF from the end of the kick and ND kept the ball (i dont remember if he called it 'after the play').
I think everyone thought it should've given PSU an automatic 1st down.
Good game to be at though!

[raiderfan]

Thanks PSUJAYE,
Since the R was standing over the play, and he was capable enough to get himself assigned as a white hat to a game with 110,000 fans , we must assume this guy is very good at what he does. I don't know the NCAA rules ( I am fairly new at NFHS ) but isn't this a good example of Post Scrimage Kick? The ball was surely past the line of scrimage when the foul occured, so the Receiving team would keep the ball.

BTW - My ND friends were embarassed with the foul. They wanted an ejection and were disappointed the player wasn't benched by the coaching staff.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by raiderfan

I don't know the NCAA rules ( I am fairly new at NFHS ) but isn't this a good example of Post Scrimage Kick? The ball was surely past the line of scrimage when the foul occured, so the Receiving team would keep the ball.

As I understand it, there are 4 conditions for PSK:

1) The kick must cross the NZ (which you note that it does)
2) The foul by R must occur before the kick ends
3) The foul by R must be beyond the NZ
4) R must have the ball at the end of the down (or be next to put the ball in play)

In your original play, the foul by R occurred behind the NZ, thus PSK does not apply. So if a personal foul (not roughing) is accepted by K, shouldn't it be assessed from the spot of the foul and an automatic 1st down, still K's ball?

[DJ_NV]

You are right that if ND was on defense and this was a live-ball foul that occurred before the end of the kick, then this is NOT as PSK foul. However, the BS for this would be the previous spot + an auto. 1st down for the PF, so it would be a 15 yard penalty and auto. 1st from the PS, not the spot of the foul.

If it happened during the runback, then it would be 15 back from the end of the run but ND would get to keep the ball.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

You are right that if ND was on defense and this was a live-ball foul that occurred before the end of the kick, then this is NOT as PSK foul. However, the BS for this would be the previous spot + an auto. 1st down for the PF, so it would be a 15 yard penalty and auto. 1st from the PS, not the spot of the foul.

If it happened during the runback, then it would be 15 back from the end of the run but ND would get to keep the ball.

My bad. A loose ball play obviously, since the kick isn't over.

[PSU213]

It was ruled a dead ball foul. I was at the game, but did not see the entire timing of it (i.e. before or after the end of the play), but the flag appeared around the same time that the runner was downed. Either way, it was announced and signaled as a DBF.