Rule changes

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

But as it stands I see nothing in the NFHS rule or case book that tells us to have a 3-second count during a front court throw-in.

If the NFHS rule was changed to include team control on a throw-in, then NFHS rule 9-7-1 would apply during front-court throw-ins without an exception. You'd need an exception for that, as well as all front-court throw-ins that went directly to a teammate of the thrower in the backcourt(9-9-1).

See NCAA rules 4-3-5 & 9-9-1(a). Those were the exceptions the NCAA had to add.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If the NFHS rule was changed to include team control on a throw-in, then NFHS rule 9-7-1 would apply during front-court throw-ins without an exception. You'd need an exception for that, as well as all front-court throw-ins that went directly to a teammate of the thrower in the backcourt(9-9-1).

See NCAA rules 4-3-5 & 9-9-1(a). Those were the exceptions the NCAA had to add.

My contention is that even without 9-9-1(a) there is no rules basis to call 3-seconds on a front court throw-in under NCAA rules. And I say that even without exceptions you would still be able to legally throw-in directly to a teammate who has back court status.

I agree that certain exceptions are needed in regards to front/back court status for tipped balls and players who leave their feet.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My contention is that even without 9-9-1(a) there is no rules basis to call 3-seconds on a front court throw-in under NCAA rules. And I say that even without exceptions you would still be able to legally throw-in directly to a teammate who has back court status.

I agree that certain exceptions are needed in regards to front/back court status for tipped balls and players who leave their feet.

Agreed, a thrower does not have either FC or BC status, as both courts are defined as being in bounds. That said, an exception would still need to be made, otherwise the 3 second count would need to start as soon as the ball touched the FC or was tipped by any player (offensive or defensive) in the throw-in team's FC.

The same situation applies to the 10 second BC violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed, a thrower does not have either FC or BC status, as both courts are defined as being in bounds. That said, an exception would still need to be made, otherwise the 3 second count would need to start as soon as the ball touched the FC or was tipped by any player (offensive or defensive) in the throw-in team's FC.

The same situation applies to the 10 second BC violation.

You should start the 3-second cout right away. I mean no one would (just like no one calls 3-seconds during an interrupted dribble), but by rule I don't see why you wouldn't start the count.

I've never felt the 10-second back court parameters have been sufficiently spelled out in the rule or case book.

Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You should start the 3-second cout right away. I mean no one would (just like no one calls 3-seconds during an interrupted dribble), but by rule I don't see why you wouldn't start the count.

I've never felt the 10-second back court parameters have been sufficiently spelled out in the rule or case book.

Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?

Both of them simply require team control in the proper court. As it stands now, the 10 second count doesn't start until a player controls the ball inbounds and the ball gains BC status. Adding TC to a throw-in would begin a 10 second count as soon as the ball bounces in the BC on a throw-in. That would be a potentially major change.

Due to how it's called, the 3 second count issue isn't as big, but it would still be a major rule change affecting when it's begun. Currently, it wouldn't begin until a player controls the ball inbounds and the ball gains FC status. Under the change, it wouldn't be too uncommon for a 3 second count to be warranted by rule before the ball is even controlled inbounds.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

As it stands now, the 10 second count doesn't start until a player controls the ball inbounds and the ball gains BC status.
Adding TC to a throw-in would begin a 10 second count as soon as the ball bounces in the BC on a throw-in. That would be a potentially major change.

What if the clock is stopped prior to the throw-in?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

What if the clock is stopped prior to the throw-in?

Does the rule say anything about the clock running?

Originally Posted by 9-8

A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You should start the 3-second cout right away. I mean no one would (just like no one calls 3-seconds during an interrupted dribble), but by rule I don't see why you wouldn't start the count.

I've never felt the 10-second back court parameters have been sufficiently spelled out in the rule or case book.

Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?

I am going to use the proper term here...Agitator!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?

You're doing a great job maintaining his legacy.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

PC is not required for the rule as it currently stands, except it's currently required for TC to begin. This rule changes that, in that PC will no longer be required to begin TC.

Either that or you define PC to include a ball in possession of a thrower....holding or "dribbling" a live ball without reference to it being inbounds.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My next question would be to find out if TC exists "only" during the throw-in, or if it continues through a tip. IOW, is there a moment w/o TC between a tipped TI pass and PC getting secured?

I asked the exact same question. We'll see if they make it consistent and clean or a mess.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hey, maybe we should wait until we actually see/read the new rule and interps and case plays before we start worrying about all of the "what if's"...

I don't know. Just a thought...

Or maybe, those that are finalizing the rules and interps just might happen to see some of the questions here and will make sure they get it right to start with. They probably won't get it right/complete to start, but it doesn't hurt to be hopeful.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Either that or you define PC to include a ball in possession of a thrower....holding or "dribbling" a live ball without reference to it being inbounds.

I don't think that would help, as it would still leave the change in when you start a BC or 3 second count.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're doing a great job maintaining his legacy.

Oh my!!

That's gonna leave a mark!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Oh my!!

That's gonna leave a mark!

The word count for all my posts in this thread combined is still lower than any one single post from my buddy.