The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 09:16am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Agreed, a thrower does not have either FC or BC status, as both courts are defined as being in bounds. That said, an exception would still need to be made, otherwise the 3 second count would need to start as soon as the ball touched the FC or was tipped by any player (offensive or defensive) in the throw-in team's FC.

The same situation applies to the 10 second BC violation.
You should start the 3-second cout right away. I mean no one would (just like no one calls 3-seconds during an interrupted dribble), but by rule I don't see why you wouldn't start the count.

I've never felt the 10-second back court parameters have been sufficiently spelled out in the rule or case book.

Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 09:22am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
You should start the 3-second cout right away. I mean no one would (just like no one calls 3-seconds during an interrupted dribble), but by rule I don't see why you wouldn't start the count.

I've never felt the 10-second back court parameters have been sufficiently spelled out in the rule or case book.

Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?
Both of them simply require team control in the proper court. As it stands now, the 10 second count doesn't start until a player controls the ball inbounds and the ball gains BC status. Adding TC to a throw-in would begin a 10 second count as soon as the ball bounces in the BC on a throw-in. That would be a potentially major change.

Due to how it's called, the 3 second count issue isn't as big, but it would still be a major rule change affecting when it's begun. Currently, it wouldn't begin until a player controls the ball inbounds and the ball gains FC status. Under the change, it wouldn't be too uncommon for a 3 second count to be warranted by rule before the ball is even controlled inbounds.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 09:35am
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
You should start the 3-second cout right away. I mean no one would (just like no one calls 3-seconds during an interrupted dribble), but by rule I don't see why you wouldn't start the count.

I've never felt the 10-second back court parameters have been sufficiently spelled out in the rule or case book.

Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?
I am going to use the proper term here...Agitator!
__________________
Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 09:36am
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
You don't have to change anything...as it is, the current exemption already in the book applies to a throw-in (player catches the throw in while in mid-air)...the others being during a jump ball and by for the team not in control of the ball. If we didn't have this exception, the play would be a backcourt violation already.
The one thing that would need to be changed in 9-1-3 is the underlined portion: "A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw in)..."

Without digging too deep, I'm sure there are a few other cascading results of this.
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 09:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
As it stands now, the 10 second count doesn't start until a player controls the ball inbounds and the ball gains BC status.
Adding TC to a throw-in would begin a 10 second count as soon as the ball bounces in the BC on a throw-in. That would be a potentially major change.
What if the clock is stopped prior to the throw-in?
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:02am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
What if the clock is stopped prior to the throw-in?
Does the rule say anything about the clock running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9-8
A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.

Last edited by Adam; Fri Apr 22, 2011 at 10:04am.
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Does the rule say anything about the clock running?
True, but if the clock isnt running (end of game strategy - delayed touch inbounds) how can we begin a b/c count?
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:24am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
True, but if the clock isnt running (end of game strategy - delayed touch inbounds) how can we begin a b/c count?
The same way we start it without the clock running. The ball is live, start swinging, partner.

You're right, it doesn't make sense because of the way we've always done it, but by rule, that'll be how it goes unless the RC takes it into account with exceptions.

It'll be just like the situation where a ball goes back into the BC after having established FC status; the new 10 second count should begin as soon as the ball gains BC status since TC is ongoing.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:29am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,642
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
Thumbs up Music to his ears......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
It'll be just like the situation where a ball goes back into the BC after having established FC status; the new 10 second count should begin as soon as the ball gains BC status since TC is ongoing.
Justacoach says +1!!!
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
The same way we start it without the clock running. The ball is live, start swinging, partner.

You're right, it doesn't make sense because of the way we've always done it, but by rule, that'll be how it goes unless the RC takes it into account with exceptions.
Hate to be "that guy" YABUT t/c does not equate to p/c...

Imagine this, left hand up to chop & right hand with the 5 second throw-in count. Ball is released & rolling up the court. Are you going to begin a b/c count with the same hand you just had a 5 second count on? Or switch chop hands to begin the b/c count?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
It'll be just like the situation where a ball goes back into the BC after having established FC status; the new 10 second count should begin as soon as the ball gains BC status since TC is ongoing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
Justacoach says +1!!!
There was p/c in this sitch not on an untouched throw-in.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:53am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,160
Actually I think we are worrying too much about this situation with the new TC rule. They will probably screw this up on some level, but we know the intention of this rule and it is to allow for a TC foul to be called on an out of bounds situation. Believe it or not this is not a very common occurrence at the college level. When the rules comes out they will leave out exceptions and have to use an interpretation or a caseplay to clean it up. Welcome to the world of the NF.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:54am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
Hate to be "that guy" YABUT t/c does not equate to p/c...

Imagine this, left hand up to chop & right hand with the 5 second throw-in count. Ball is released & rolling up the court. Are you going to begin a b/c count with the same hand you just had a 5 second count on? Or switch chop hands to begin the b/c count?
You're debating the mechanics here. Personally, I would use the same hand (if the rule isn't adjusted properly, but I'm assuming it will be).


Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
There was p/c in this sitch not on an untouched throw-in.
PC is not required for the rule as it currently stands, except it's currently required for TC to begin. This rule changes that, in that PC will no longer be required to begin TC.

My next question would be to find out if TC exists "only" during the throw-in, or if it continues through a tip. IOW, is there a moment w/o TC between a tipped TI pass and PC getting secured?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 11:05am
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,775
Hey, maybe we should wait until we actually see/read the new rule and interps and case plays before we start worrying about all of the "what if's"...

I don't know. Just a thought...
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 11:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
You're debating the mechanics here. Personally, I would use the same hand (if the rule isn't adjusted properly, but I'm assuming it will be).
You know what Snaqs? I've been using the wrong rule in this case. The throw-in hasnt ended without being legally touched so that's why we cant begin a b/c count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
My next question would be to find out if TC exists "only" during the throw-in, or if it continues through a tip. IOW, is there a moment w/o TC between a tipped TI pass and PC getting secured?
I'd say no, as a mere tip by Team B during a live ball inbounds does end t/c for Team A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Hey, maybe we should wait until we actually see/read the new rule and interps and case plays before we start worrying about all of the "what if's"...

I don't know. Just a thought...
This is what happens when there are no meaningful games to be worked. *Bored*
__________________
I gotta new attitude!

Last edited by tref; Fri Apr 22, 2011 at 11:09am.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 11:16am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Where is my buddy Randy when I truly need him?
You're doing a great job maintaining his legacy.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I violated rule #1.....not THAT rule #1 Judtech Basketball 148 Mon Jan 31, 2011 09:09am
Rule 6 3O enforcement - 20 second pitch rule wadeintothem Softball 5 Tue Jun 30, 2009 03:33pm
Rule 1, The Forgotten Rule TxJim Football 14 Thu Jan 04, 2007 07:02pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:45pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1