Notice NCAA tournament blatant disregard for 6-foot closely guarded distance?

[Jurassic Referee]

The NFHS is clear in how they want the signal used. I already gave their issued reference for that. I have no idea whatinhell IAABO regards as being optional or mandatory, nor do I really care. If IAABO wants to issue their own exam, mechanics and rules interpretations, they're free to do so. It doesn't help non-IAABO officials though when they issue something that is completely contrary to what the NFHS has issued and goes against FED rules or doctrine.

Also as a general observation, I do think that sometimes you just have to referee the game and quit trying to micro-analyze every single facet of it. The usage of this particular signal is a prime example of that imo. It's no more or no less than exactly how the FED told us to use it when they initiated it.

JMO

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

b) an official opting to use it only occasionally when needed to communicate

I think that's how the NFHS directed all of us to use it when they initiated the signal. And I think I cited their words to that effect above.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

But, no signal could mean (1) You have nothing, or (2) You're not paying attention. The signal tells the coach it's the former.

(Not that anyone here would ever be guilty of the latter. The signal is needed because of all the other officials out there.)

The fact that the NFHS and NCAA has a signal for officials to use to say it is the former and not the latter is a sad commentary on basketball officiating.

I do my job, just like all of the other many esteemed officials who contribute to this Fourm on a regular basis, meaning, if I am not giving a visible count, I do not have a CGS.

The logic behind this signal is STUPID! Emphasis to officials that they need to get their heads out of their a$$e$ and officiate the game, and stop looking for cute moms in the stands, .

And now for something completely different. Yesterday I had my first rainout of the season.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The fact that the NFHS and NCAA has a signal for officials to use to say it is the former and not the latter is a sad commentary on basketball officiating.

You know what is really a sad commentary on basketball officiating? You teaching your son the same antiquated, hide-bound conventions that you learned 30 years ago. Why not just let the kid form his own opinion of what should be done in today's game?

The game is constantly changing, Mark. Even the dinosaurs should try to make at least some kind of attempt to keep up with it.

JMO

[Adam]

I say we just take the dinosaurs and make more oil.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rfp

Who said anything about being upset? It's an observation, not about one official, but about NCAA M officials across the board, leading me to conclude that it must be specifically discouraged at that level. I've never heard that, thus my post. Some appear to agree.

Stop being so dramatic. You started the post and I found it odd that you claim that the call was discouraged as if there was a mandate or something. First of all that is not the case, maybe they have different judgment than you do. That does not mean they completely ignore the call, as a matter of fact many have used the proper signals to suggest they do not have such a call to make. Again, judgment calls all the way and what you see on TV is not totally the same perspective you have sitting on your couch in your living room. Also those players are taller in many cases and they will appear to be closer than they really are or what we are used to working our HS games. You do not have to agree, but this is my take on it and no where have I not seen this properly started based on the judgment of the official. And college officials tend to be slower with starting a count than HS officials because they wait to see if the player is actually in 6 feet rather than starting a count when the player gets the ball.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I say we just take the dinosaurs and make more oil.

Everybody knows oil came from plankton, not dinosaurs. Well, unless you're Thomas Gold and think the earth micturates oil.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You know what is really a sad commentary on basketball officiating? You teaching your son the same antiquated, hide-bound conventions that you learned 30 years ago. Why not just let the kid form his own opinion of what should be done in today's game?

The game is constantly changing, Mark. Even the dinosaurs should try to make at least some kind of attempt to keep up with it.

JMO

JR:

What is the first rule of officiating any sport? ANSWER: You have nothing until you have something. Simple and to the point.

I am about as far as from being a conservative and one can be. BUT, that does not mean that I believe that something should be changed just to change it.

A good example of a rule being changed because officials were not enforcing the rule as written occured in the early 1980's. I think the 1980-81 school year was when the change was made and I am not going to climb up into the attic to check, . Prior to that school year, the rule defining when the players could enter the free throw lane during a free throw was basically the same for the NFHS and NCAA Men's as it is today for NFHS. Starting with that school year the NFHS and NCAA Men's changed the rule to what it is basically is today for NCAA Men's/Women's. The reason given by the two rules committees was that too many officials (and I am going to hang most of the blame on the men's college officials and the high school officials that emulated them) were not enforcing the rule as written therefore the rule was changed to reflect how far too many officials were officiating the game. The NFHS has come full circle and the free throw rule is the same as it was before the early 1980's.

MTD, Sr.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Everybody knows oil came from plankton, not dinosaurs. Well, unless you're Thomas Gold and think the earth micturates oil.

mbyron: kindly pi$$ off!

[Ignats75]

Mark, I'm really surprised at you. This signal is a great game management tool. I know there are some idiotic coaches in the Toledo area. I've had a couple of them when they come east to play Cleveland teams.

One of the goals of game management is to keep a coach from ruining my night by complaining because he thinks his six foot ruler is longer than mine. By giving the sign, it keeps him quiet and me happy. Win-Win.

[Welpe]

Mark, I guess I won't ask your opinion on the "That's nothing!" with a safe signal mechanic in baseball then.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Mark, I'm really surprised at you. This signal is a great game management tool. I know there are some idiotic coaches in the Toledo area. I've had a couple of them when they come east to play Cleveland teams.

One of the goals of game management is to keep a coach from ruining my night by complaining because he thinks his six foot ruler is longer than mine. By giving the sign, it keeps him quiet and me happy. Win-Win.

I've had more issues with coaches who's ruler is shorter than mine, but I see the value of the tool. Even before we had it, though, coaches saw me swing my arms enough to know I was paying attention. They knew if I wasn't counting, their defender wasn't close enough.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Mark, I guess I won't ask your opinion on the "That's nothing!" with a safe signal mechanic in baseball then.

Welpe:

I am not sure I understand what you are describing. I will say: "No catch!" on a trapped ball; "No tag!" on a play such as where R1 is being forced to 2B on a ground ball to F4 and F4 attempts to tag R1 and misses; etc. But I do not know why anybody would anybody say combine the "safe signal" with "That's nothing!" in baseball or softball for that matter.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Not all coaches are as stupid as we think they are, you will be suprised at how many of them understand the concept that if an official is not showing a visible five-second count it is because there is not CGS and there is not need for the Spread Arm signal. As I have said before, when evaluating an official I could care less whether he uses the signal or not, you just are not going to see me use it ever.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Not all coaches are as stupid as we think they are, you will be suprised at how many of them understand the concept that if an official is not showing a visible five-second count it is because there is not CGS and there is not need for the Spread Arm signal. As I have said before, when evaluating an official I could care less whether he uses the signal or not, you just are not going to see me use it ever.

MTD why dont you tell us how you really feel about it

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Welpe:

I am not sure I understand what you are describing. I will say: "No catch!" on a trapped ball; "No tag!" on a play such as where R1 is being forced to 2B on a ground ball to F4 and F4 attempts to tag R1 and misses; etc. But I do not know why anybody would anybody say combine the "safe signal" with "That's nothing!" in baseball or softball for that matter.

R2. Batted ball to F6. R2 runs in front of F6 and the ball barely misses him.

Umpire should give the safe sign and say "that's nothing" to show he saw the play and judged no interference.

(one example of many).