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Sun Nov 30, 2003, 09:57am
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Brand new member. Apprentice referee in my home pool (1 year exp). Enjoy the forum for its professional approach. Closely Guarded
1) By definition six feet, but the difference between being actually closely guarded in 12th grade and sixth grade is huge. Lately I have been allowing my discretion to influence beginning the count rather than my estimate of distance. 2) I have been instructed that CG counts begins during a held ball or while dribbling but ends/recommences when player in control begins dribbling or picks up her dribble respectively. I can't find the distinction in the rule book. Is my mentor incorrect?
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Who needs the instruction book, let's just put it together. 
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Sun Nov 30, 2003, 10:14am
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Rule 9-10 Art. 1 A player shall not while closely guarded:
a. In his/her frontcourt, hold the ball for five seconds or dribble the ball for five seconds. Your mentor is correct.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove
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Sun Nov 30, 2003, 11:25am
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Legal guarding position within six feet is all that's required. Six feet is a pretty long distance -- I try to imagine laying down between the players. If the space is big enough for me to lay down, it's probably too far to be closely guarded. Anything closer, you should be counting. The better coaches will be asking for that count if you aren't making it.
I had a five-second count in my first game last Tuesday. Rich
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Sun Nov 30, 2003, 11:41am
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Quote:
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Might as well get used to judging the distance now. By rule, a defender does not need to be "actively guarding" or in a "defensive posture" in order for you to start the closely guarded count. So if your defender is facing you within 6 feet, the ref should be swinging that arm. As Rich said, 6 feet is a lot more than most people realize. But you do have some help in visualizing how far 6 feet is while you're out on the court. The distance from the free throw line to the outside of the free throw circle is six feet. The radius of the jump circle is six feet. Each lane space is three feet, so two together is just over six feet (if you include the 2 inches for the lane line). My advice would be to start judging the distance, rather than try to determine if the defender is actually "guarding" the player with the ball. Get used to it now, so it becomes a good habit for later. And welcome to the forum!!
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Sun Nov 30, 2003, 12:08pm
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Remember you can hold the ball for 4 seconds( fifth would be the whistle) dribble for 4 and hold again for 4-
I say four seconds because after a five count you should blow the whistle- as mentioned before good coaches are looking for you to call this properely as they coach defense and are looking for a five second count
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Sun Nov 30, 2003, 07:49pm
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Had an interesting situation in one of my Friday night games.
My partner, a 15 year veteran, was questioned by one of the coaches on why he didn't call the 5 second CG violation. His answer, the offensive player (who was dribbling) changed direction, thus earning a new count. He further explained that it was obvious that he had started a new count in that he had swithced his visual count from his left arm to his right. We discussed the call at halftime and his explanation was that in changing direction the offensive player had created a space. He demonstrated that space by holding his hands up approximately 3 feet apart. I let it the comment go as I had nothing to gain in arguing (He clearly felt that he was the "lead" official as he had experience and I was only starting my 2nd season). In a nutshell, I disagree with my partner's interpretation. 6 ft is a much larger distance than one thinks, and the rule book is specific. I know that sometimes I wait until a player appears to be actively guarding, and I have not completely got the feel of 6 ft., but it is clear to me that 3 ft. or less doesn't qualify for starting a new count.
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Sun Nov 30, 2003, 09:40pm
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One other thing to keep in mind....
The 5 second count does NOT stop on the dribbler when a "switch" is made by different defensive players (as long as the 6' rule applies). I had this situation happen during a tournament this weekend and had to explain my 5 second call. Rock'n Ref
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Mon Dec 01, 2003, 01:41am
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another misconception
Last week I was watching a boys varsity game. Team A led by about 5 or 6 with time running down. They had spread the court and the point guard put on a nice ballhandling display trying to run out the clock, but, unfortunately, he had a defender shadowing his every move. tweet- 5 seconds
A very knowledgeable fan quickly spoke up: "No, ref, that's 5 seconds in one place!! He was all over the court!" A word about distance. I would rather see a no call at 5 1/2 feet than a 5 second call at 6 1/2 feet.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove
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Mon Dec 01, 2003, 03:35am
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I can kinda see the "old timer" thought if the person dribbling the ball had gotten past the defender heading to the basket. At this point, even if the defender is running with the offensive player, if the defensive player is not between the ball handler and the basket, the count should stop as really the defender is not guarding anything.
Now if the offensive player is going sideline to sideline, then it should continue to count
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Jim Need an out, get an out. Need a run, balk it in.
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Mon Dec 01, 2003, 11:43am
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Rich likes to picture himself lying down between the players
 , I use the "If the defender can take one step forward and reach out and touch the person with an extended arm", they are closely guarded. There as several reverences on the floor as well; center cicle and radius of FT circle.Mregor
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Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
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Mon Dec 01, 2003, 03:12pm
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As far as closely guarded at lower levels, I try to use the height of the players as a reference. I vizualize the defender lying on the floor between themselves and the offensive player. I guess I came to this from 6 feet being an average height for varsity players. Anyway, that's what I use to "officiate to the level of the game". Any other suggestions?
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Mon Dec 01, 2003, 03:36pm
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Mon Dec 01, 2003, 03:40pm
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Why are we trying to make shortcuts on this, people? The rule is specific, it's 6 feet. The rule doesn't give an option for lower levels, as it does with the length of a quarter. Find an example of 6 feet out on the court (FT line to 3-point arc) and try to visualize that wherever you are on the court.
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Mon Dec 01, 2003, 04:11pm
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The 6 feet rule is written by NF for HS players. The game is very different in 4th grade rec than in varsity HS. I am not clear why some are being so tight about the 6 feet rule. If there was ever a place for a little elastic, that would be one. Just like 3 secs might be alittle longer at that level
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