The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 13, 2002, 01:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 94
Could someone please review the timeout and between quarters mechanic where officials (two-man) should be (NFHS)? I don't have my official's manual in front of me and I keep getting conflicting opinions from other vets on how this is applied.

Case 1: Lead along the baseline grants Team A a timeout in their frontcourt. The lead reports the timeout (a 30 second T.O.) and immediately returns to the spot of the throw in? The trail stands in front of the center circle? Is this procedure correct? If not, please advise. Also, which official is responsible for notifying the teams that the first (warning) buzzer has sounded? Both, right?

Case 2: Trail grants the T.O. (a 60 second) to Team A with the ball in their frontcourt. The ball will be inbounded on the sideline after the T.O. is over. Trail reports the T.O., immediately returns to the spot where the ball will be inbounded while the lead stands behind the center circle?

Case 3: Between quarters, the referee stands at the center line opposite the table while the umpire stands at the FT line of the frontcourt in the direction the ball will be inbounded, right? Thanks again for the confirmation or condemnation.

Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 13, 2002, 01:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,063
It's actually very simple, much more so than many officials make it, and you seem to have it.

The timeout is reported by whoever grants it. If necessesary, throw the ball to the partner to hold during the report.

Immediately after the report, the official that will administer the throw-in/FT will go the the spot. The other official goes to the division line. At the first horn, the one on the division line notifies the team and heads to his/her position.

Many people like to have the non-calling official mark the spot until the first horn and switch back then if necessary. That is not the correct procedure and creates a lot of unnecessary switching. While the ball is being reported, it is not necessary for the non-calling official to take the ball to the spot unless it will be administered by that official.

To address your cases:

1. You are correct.

2. Correct, IF the sideline that it will be on was the one covered by the trail. If that sideline was the leads, then the trail will report and go to the division line and the lead will go to the spot.

3. Correct. (or is it the blocks??).
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 13, 2002, 02:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
NFHS, 2-person mechanics:

Case 1: Yes, that's correct. Just remember that after reporting, the official who is going to be administering is the one that goes to the spot of administration and the other official assumes the spot at halfcourt in front of the circle (closest to the table) for a 30.

Case 2: Yes, that's correct. Just remember that after reporting, the official who is going to be administering is the one that goes to the spot of administration and the other official assumes the spot at halfcourt behind the circle (furthest from the table) for a full.

Case 3: Yep, you got it right.

Z
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 13, 2002, 02:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 94
Thanks guys, I'll pass it along to the "vets" who need a little reminder.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 13, 2002, 03:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
Frequently ignored in practice

This mechanic seems to be frequently ignored. It is especially problematic when you call TO before a baseline inbounds at your basket, and draw up a play based on where the official was ready to deliver the ball, then the official goes to the other side of the basket. I always ask where it will be now, so that I know that it won't change from where it was before the TO.

I have had officials act like it is a meaningless distinction. They obviously don't understand that in a close game when I call TO with ball on my baseline, I am trying to set my best scorer up for a high percentage opportunity. Yes it makes a difference, and yes, I do give a [email protected] And if they would stand at the spot, it won't change when we leave our TO and I will be a much happier coach I seem to get the officials that think that TOs are a chance to have an engaging chat with their partner.

There, I am better now.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 13, 2002, 04:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally posted by Pirate
Thanks guys, I'll pass it along to the "vets" who need a little reminder.
Just make sure your local assocation (for example TASO) does not have a different mechanic for you to follow
__________________
To tolerate mediocrity is to foster it.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 14, 2002, 10:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 778
Re: Frequently ignored in practice

Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
This mechanic seems to be frequently ignored. It is especially problematic when you call TO before a baseline inbounds at your basket, and draw up a play based on where the official was ready to deliver the ball, then the official goes to the other side of the basket. I always ask where it will be now, so that I know that it won't change from where it was before the TO.

I have had officials act like it is a meaningless distinction. They obviously don't understand that in a close game when I call TO with ball on my baseline, I am trying to set my best scorer up for a high percentage opportunity. Yes it makes a difference, and yes, I do give a [email protected] And if they would stand at the spot, it won't change when we leave our TO and I will be a much happier coach I seem to get the officials that think that TOs are a chance to have an engaging chat with their partner.

There, I am better now.
First of all Coach, we should always have someone at the correct spot you are correct, many teams I work for have an assistant ask us to make sure while the head coach is talking to the team. Second of all that little chat we are having with 19 seconds left in a two point game goes like this. Okay, Red has the ball here, spot throw, both teams are in the double bonus, get your shooter on the foul, AP is with white, if red hits this shot to go up by four look for white to want a quick foul, stay calm and finish strong, let's get it right, I'll have the shot on the other end of the floor.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 14, 2002, 10:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 778
Quote:
Originally posted by Pirate
Thanks guys, I'll pass it along to the "vets" who need a little reminder.
I would suggest you do that in a manner such as "what is the correct mechanic on positioning for the timeout's Mr. Vet, I am still a little unsure on that. Thanks for the help"
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 14, 2002, 09:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,474
Question How to tell a vet they are wrong?

We have at least a dozen more seasoned officials than myself in our association. One week the vet says "I like to stand at the free throw line during time outs." Next week the vet says "I like to stand at the top of the key during timeouts." The following week its "Well, I like to stand at the free throw line extended to the 3-point line on the back side of the key. It just looks better."

It just looks better? It just looks better??!

I want to scream at them. BULL CRAPOLA. I have better expletives but they are unprintable.

You know what looks good? What looks good is to do it the way the book tells you to do it. It never 'looks better' do do it wrong. Every once in awhile I will have a coach ask me where the ball will be coming in... and it is always when some veteran has told me to stand in the wrong place. By following the veterans lead I am playing the part of a good partner but at the same time I am reinforcing an incorrect mechanic for the veteran and for any other upcoming official that may be watching.

These same veterans are the ones that like to stand on the sideline as Trail during a free throw. How are you going to help with any call from way over there? You can't possibly see your side of the key.

So my question is .... How do you, with politcal correctness, realign a veteran's thinking?
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 14, 2002, 09:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 25
What is the rationale for this? Many vets in my area say that the calling official goes to division line after reporting, other goes to throw in spot. If this constitutes a switch, so be it. This way seems to make more sense than the way described in this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 15, 2002, 09:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Re: How to tell a vet they are wrong?

Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
It never 'looks better' do do it wrong.
Then why do they change the mechanic every once in a while? I guess I just disagree with you. I happen to think standing on the low blocks looks much better then the Fed mechanic. It also gets you out of the way of the cheerbabes. I use the Fed mechanic in my HS games, but not b/c it's the "best" way to do it. Additionally, nobody gives a rat's rear end about the officials during a TO. Nobody cares if you're at midcourt, or whatever. On top of that, in a hotly contested game, or at the end of a close game, you better be talking to your partner(s) and not standing 40 feet apart.

Quote:
These same veterans are the ones that like to stand on the sideline as Trail during a free throw. How are you going to help with any call from way over there? You can't possibly see your side of the key.
Why not? I don't see the objection here. So you stand a little more toward midcourt to get a good angle. I always stand very near, if not quite on, the sideline as T. It's not a problem, believe me.

Chuck
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 15, 2002, 10:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,782
2-man switches

Quote:
Originally posted by mpeterson_1
What is the rationale for this? Many vets in my area say that the calling official goes to division line after reporting, other goes to throw in spot. If this constitutes a switch, so be it. This way seems to make more sense than the way described in this thread.
As far as I know, in two-man, you are only supposed to switch on fouls and on a sideline switch (see diagram 22 on page 34 of the Officials Manual). Therefore, the officials should always return to their same positions, except for a change of sides of the court, after the time-out.

Also I had never thought about this before, but it seems that if the ball were in a location that would have necessitated a sideline switch if a violation had been called (say a kicked ball by the defense) instead of a time-out being granted, (meaning ball location is lead's side, but above the free-throw line extended) then the officials should make this switch during the time-out.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 15, 2002, 05:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 301
I agree with mpeterson. It makes sense for the calling official to maintain position in front of the table on a :30 and across from the table near the sideline on a full. I use the volleyball standard covers as a reference. I also agree that the officials should meet on timeouts during the last minute to go over the game situation. I guess I have never seen the calling official on a time-out go back to the ball unless the time-out was near the division line. The coaches know where the ball will be because the non-calling official is standing on the spot with the ball in the arm of the direction it will go coming out of the time out. If on the endline, hold the ball in front of you or in back of you. This is a good idea because when you get over 40 on a full time out you might forget which way the ball goes in 60 seconds!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 15, 2002, 08:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
Every year there is confusion on the proper mechanic in our region for time-outs. I always wondered, "why is it so confusing?" Now I know. The Official's Manual explains it simply and in detail. Why do some officials and states (if indeed any states would go to the trouble of changing an NFHS mechanic) change it because they "have a better way?" Why not just do it right?

At the state tournament, several officials did their "own thing" rather than the NFHS recommended mechanic. They all went home after the first day of officiating.

Z
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 15, 2002, 09:25pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,729
Never seen it, but don't doubt it

I just re-entered the wonderful world of basketball officiating after a hiatus.

Called a girls' varsity game Friday night and a boys' varsity game Saturday afternoon. Only four subvarsity games to let me remember how to officiate, but it all came back quickly. I will say I read through the mechanics and rules books thoroughly this preseason (like I should every season, but I digress).

I know I'll have completely arrived when I:

(1) Stop waving in substitutes before multiple throws
(2) Stop coming to the FT line as the trail on the first shot

My first year of officiating, 1987, I laughed at how much trouble the vets had getting used to the new 3-point line (might have been 1988, I don't remember). I understand now, believe me.

I've always been a stickler for proper mechanics, not because I think they are always the best way to do things, but because it provides a foundation for myself and my partner -- who, since I just moved to my current home, will be new to me nine times out of ten. If we follow proper mechanics, then I know where s/he will be on the court and s/he should know where I am.

That said, I can't ever remember working in a state where the reporting official on a timeout did not assume the position at the division line. While I'm not doubting that I've been doing this "wrong" all of these years, I have never had a partner in the five states I've worked basketball bring this up.

Actually, I remember a time when we would piggy-back timeouts to our partners if the partner was more convenient to the table. I have no idea whether that was proper at some time (I would guess not). A lot less awkward taking it to the table yourself anyway, now that we have to find out whether a TO is a full or a 30.

As my season progresses, I hope to contribute more to this board. I've mostly been a baseball umpire the last five years and have written articles for the pay-per-view portion of the site. But I must say that the basketball bug has hit hard. Again.

Rich
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1