Thoughts on Technical Foul

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Actually, I can understand the instinct to ask if you can save your TO. At 30 seconds, it's just now getting to the point where you could put in your subs. It's not like it's a 20 point lead.

I can too, but when he did not receive the answer he was looking for, which is also the correct answer, why drop Billy Packers line & set up the potential 5 or 6 point swing?

Gotta love & respect the coach that picks the wise battles.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I know it is a higher standard. I do not allow any of my girls to make calls on the court or from the bench, and win or lose they find every official after every game and say thank you.

It was stupid. I was more upset that after I helped the other coach's player he was the one who demanded I be charged with a timeout. And he was the coach on the officials all game.

Yeah, I got snippy. Sorry. I come in here and read all the time and respect what I read in here. The only thing missing is a Mark Padgett witty retort.

You're not missing much. Sounds like your issue is more with the coach for pressing this. Can't say I blame you. Of course, from the sounds of it, he would have been sitting down by this point in my game.

For some reason, I hate the post game thank-yous from players. I've learned to accept it in games where I can't get off the court quickly (ms, rec, AAU, "Gold Crown"), but in a hs game, I'm off the court before the players have a chance to look for me.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by tref

I can too, but when he did not receive the answer he was looking for, which is also the correct answer, why drop Billy Packers line & set up the potential 5 or 6 point swing?

Gotta love & respect the coach that picks the wise battles.

Okay, okay. I already admitted it was stupid!

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're not missing much.

For some reason, I hate the post game thank-yous from players. I've learned to accept it in games where I can't get off the court quickly (ms, rec, AAU, "Gold Crown"), but in a hs game, I'm off the court before the players have a chance to look for me.

Our officials always stay and do a B game afterwards. Many of our officials come and finish dressing in the gym, so they are changing shoes and putting on coats after the 2nd game. I want my girls to have a healthy respect for officials for when they move on up to high school and I also explained my T was unacceptable. Bad example, bad form on my part.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Okay, okay. I already admitted it was stupid!

Truce!

*Homeland Official levels have been downgraded to green*

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Our officials always stay and do a B game afterwards. Many of our officials come and finish dressing in the gym, so they are changing shoes and putting on coats after the 2nd game. I want my girls to have a healthy respect for officials for when they move on up to high school and I also explained my T was unacceptable. Bad example, bad form on my part.

One of the main reasons I don't like MS games. Even if they're working two games, they should have a room to retreat to. While it may prevent your girls from being able to shake their hands, it also prevents knucklehead parents from taking a chance to speak their minds.

If you want, they can thank the officials before the game.

Just my $.02.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree. The fact is, he's right about it being bad officiating. He was just wrong to say it.

Agreed.

And if that was the first comment Big2Cat had made the entire game, I'm not T'ing him for it. From what he posted, it sounds like the classic case of one coach whining and moaning the entire game - but not getting T'd, and then the quiet coach making one comment and getting whacked. The ABS ran downhill toward Big2Cat.

Of course, if he had not made the comment, the T would not have been called.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not talking about in the game where you are subject the official's judgment, I am talking about in how you interact with your officials, as was tref, Nevada and everybody else that commented about it.

Am I one of the "everybody else"? I commented on it.

Sorry, Nevada, Snaqs,Welpe, Tref, et al, I just do not agree with you. Imo saying "That's bad officiating" in that situation is no different than saying "That's bad officiating" after a travel call. It's exactly the same as saying "That's a bad call" or "You missed that one." If that's a one-off comment made quietly and without putting on a show, there is nowayinhell I'm ever calling an immediate "T" on that one. Maybe a warning...with the emphasis on "maybe". And I don't care whether the perp is an official or not, or whether it's grade school either.

I'm known as a law'n'order guy too, but that's just taking things way too far imo.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Am I one of the "everybody else"? I commented on it.

Sorry, Nevada, Snaqs,Welpe, Tref, et al, I just do not agree with you. Imo saying "That's bad officiating" in that situation is no different than saying "That's bad officiating" after a travel call. It's exactly the same as saying "That's a bad call" or "You missed that one." If that's a one-off comment made quietly and without putting on a show, there is nowayinhell I'm ever calling an immediate "T" on that one. Maybe a warning...with the emphasis on "maybe". And I don't care whether the perp is an official or not, or whether it's grade school either.

I'm known as a law'n'order guy too, but that's just taking things way too far imo.

"That's a bad call" isn't, IMO, the same as "that's bad officiating." Disagree if you want, but that's beyond my line. Making the comment, as an official, is risking a T in this situation.

Since in this situation, I'd have stayed back as Trail and probably killed the play early in a ms girls game, it's hard to say how I'd respond. If I missed the injury and the opposing coach gave me the heads up, I'd be grateful and wouldn't charge the TO.

However, if I was L and my partner charged the TO, only to have the coach snap, "that's bad officiating," I'd be more likely than not to ring him up.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"That's a bad call" isn't, IMO, the same as "that's bad officiating." Disagree if you want, but that's beyond my line. Making the comment, as an official, is risking a T in this situation.

Concur

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"That's a bad call" isn't, IMO, the same as "that's bad officiating." Disagree if you want, but that's beyond my line.

Everybody sets their own line and I sureasheck don't have a problem with that.

But if you're going to ring a coach up immediately for quietly saying for the very first time at the end of a game and without putting on any visible show "that's bad officiating" after you made a traveling call, well we sureasheck are going to disagree philosophically. I'd never dream of handing out a "T" under those circumstances.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Everybody sets their own line and I sureasheck don't have a problem with that.

But if you're going to ring a coach up immediately for quietly saying for the very first time at the end of a game and without putting on any visible show "that's bad officiating" after you made a traveling call, well we sureasheck are going to disagree philosophically. I'd never dream of handing out a "T" under those circumstances.

Fair enough, the "quietly" part escaped me. I read it, but seem to have glossed over it. I probably wouldn't ring up a quiet comment like that without warning.

That said, I don't really feel too sorry for an official/coach who makes the comment in a ms game, to an official who just charged a TO in this situation, and gets rung.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

But if you're going to ring a coach up immediately for quietly saying for the very first time at the end of a game and without putting on any visible show "that's bad officiating" after you made a traveling call, well we sureasheck are going to disagree philosophically. I'd never dream of handing out a "T" under those circumstances.

Not saying I dont trust the guy but are we sure thats how it really happened?
I've seen a number of whinny coaches act like they haven't done anything ALL GAME. "What was that for"

I'd like to get the game officials take on it.

A coach giving an official a piece of his mind, then turning his back on him could be considered "putting on a show" depending on what has happened previously in the game.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Am I one of the "everybody else"? I commented on it.

Sorry, Nevada, Snaqs,Welpe, Tref, et al, I just do not agree with you. Imo saying "That's bad officiating" in that situation is no different than saying "That's bad officiating" after a travel call. It's exactly the same as saying "That's a bad call" or "You missed that one." If that's a one-off comment made quietly and without putting on a show, there is nowayinhell I'm ever calling an immediate "T" on that one. Maybe a warning...with the emphasis on "maybe". And I don't care whether the perp is an official or not, or whether it's grade school either.

I'm known as a law'n'order guy too, but that's just taking things way too far imo.

I'm not saying I'd T it (I might but I'll go with HTBT). What I am saying is that the conduct of one official towards another that is working should be higher than that of the casual fan or coach. I'm sure you'd agree with me on that.

Nobody is perfect and just recently I violated this standard too at a minor league hockey game and I'm ashamed I did. It was humbling and I beat myself up on it pretty good for acting like Joe Six Pack the Ignorant Fan.

We really need to support our fellow officials out there working, no matter what capacity and level. Sure there are bad eggs but we would like the same in return. There are too few of us taking far too much garbage, let's try and make sure we're not adding to the heap.

That's all I'm saying.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

Not saying I dont trust the guy but are we sure thats how it really happened?

No, but my response was based on his actions being portrayed accurately. Under the specific circumstances that Cat related, I personally would not hand out a "T". But I don't have a problem with the people that would, as long as they're consistent when they set their own line in the sand. Everybody has their own tolerance level when it comes to what they view as T-worthy. That's one area where I don't think we're ever going to get unanimity. So, it's up to the coaches and players to figure out what they can and cannot get away with. And when you're making comments instead of asking questions, you're taking your chances.

JMO