Thoughts on Technical Foul

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If a coach, while on offense, alerts me to an injured opponent (whether known or unknown by the officials), my interpretation immediately becomes that they are giving up their offensive drive and I can't see not killing the play immediately.

No, I would not call a team timeout in the situation as you described. I would go with an official's timeout.

Note that an official doesn't have to "tell the perpetrator" about a foul call. Any voicing of a foul is done in a general sense to anyone that is interested. The only official direct conversation is directed to the scorekeeper. However, any dead ball T I call will likely have a whistle from me with a clear voice reporting the foul. IOW, the coach will surely know that he was T'd up.

I would not T a coach up for saying that something is "really bad officiating". Now, if he was a case of ABS, I most definitely would consider it.

ABS? What is that?

[APG]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

ABS? What is that?

Accumulation of B***S***.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

ABS? What is that?

Accumulation of Bull $%^*

A comment that by itself you would probably ignore but when they start accumulating and multiplying like rabbits it is enough to peg your T-meter.

[dsqrddgd909]

Thanks Welpe and APG. Adding that to my officiation lexicon.

[Adam]

1. Does this official know you ref? If so, I would be a little more quick with the T. Your comment was out of line, regardless, however, and you should have known you were risking a T when you said it. Whether he "told" you isn't really relevant. He's not required to. He told the table. Would you prefer he made a show out of it, like you're accusing tref of wanting to do?

2. Was the girl in danger? Did you bring an EMT onto the court? If not, a few extra seconds isn't going to make things worse. Get his attention, point to the player. Unless she's unconscious or bleeding profusely, I don't get the "urgency" here.

I'll reanswer. No, I wouldn't have charged the TO. Frankly, I would have come up to you and quietly asked, while the injured player was being attended to, if you really wanted the TO.

Yes, I would have given you a T. The only thing I would have done differently is blown my whistle when giving it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

...
2. Was the girl in danger? Did you bring an EMT onto the court? If not, a few extra seconds isn't going to make things worse. Get his attention, point to the player. Unless she's unconscious or bleeding profusely, I don't get the "urgency" here.

...

I can understand the urgency if the player laying there motionless. How do we know if she is conscious or not?

Also, mechanics wise, the trail official should have stayed back or kept an I on the player until the opportunity to stop play. Should not have taken either coach to point out that a player was down.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I can understand the urgency if the player laying there motionless. How do we know if she is conscious or not?

Also, mechanics wise, the trail official should have stayed back or kept an I on the player until the opportunity to stop play. Should not have taken either coach to point out that a player was down.

I agree. The fact is, he's right about it being bad officiating. He was just wrong to say it.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree. The fact is, he's right about it being bad officiating. He was just wrong to say it.

Agreed.

And if that was the first comment Big2Cat had made the entire game, I'm not T'ing him for it. From what he posted, it sounds like the classic case of one coach whining and moaning the entire game - but not getting T'd, and then the quiet coach making one comment and getting whacked. The ABS ran downhill toward Big2Cat.

Of course, if he had not made the comment, the T would not have been called.

[tref]

I respect that, coach! My apologies!

Just curious, with the game situation (time & score) being what it was, why say anything at all?

Also, if you dont think it looks bad for a coach (while he's upset) to have a quick face to face with an official, then walk away, thats on you.

And, "bad officiating" is a commentators term. Nobody "in the game" talks like that.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by tref

I respect that, coach! My apologies!

Just curious, with the game situation (time & score) being what it was, why say anything at all?

Also, if you dont think it looks bad for a coach (while he's upset) to have a quick face to face with an official, then walk away, thats on you.

And, "bad officiating" is a commentators term. Nobody "in the game" talks like that.

Yeah, it was a bad comment. I was probably talking as an official at that moment and deserved the T.

Also, I do ultimately agree I should be held to a higher standard.

She really did go down pretty hard and wasn't moving. I truly was worried for her which is why I yelled timeout. Her dad came and thanked me after the game.

Anyhow, thanks again. I should have handled it better. I appreciate the people who point out I could have handled it better rather than attacking me. We need to keep each other on course at times and I veered off.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Yeah, it was a bad comment. I was probably talking as an official at that moment and deserved the T.

Also, I do ultimately agree I should be held to a higher standard.

She really did go down pretty hard and wasn't moving. I truly was worried for her which is why I yelled timeout. Her dad came and thanked me after the game.

Anyhow, thanks again. I should have handled it better. I appreciate the people who point out I could have handled it better rather than attacking me. We need to keep each other on course at times and I veered off.

It surprises me that after 22 years of service, you didn't know we are held to a higher standard both on & off the court. Whether we are working, playing, coaching or spectating.

Its girls basketball, thats what they do!! They fall down & hurt themselves... After 15 years of service on that side, it surprises me that you dont know this either.

Perhaps I attacked you, perhaps I just pointed out the facts & you didnt like it. You STILL fail to answer any questions...
up 7 with 30 seconds left, with the ball. WHY?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

It surprises me that after 22 years of service, you didn't know we are held to a higher standard both on & off the court. Whether we are working, playing, coaching or spectating.

Its girls basketball, thats what they do!! They fall down & hurt themselves... After 15 years of service on that side, it surprises me that you dont know this either.

Perhaps I attacked you, perhaps I just pointed out the facts & you didnt like it. You STILL fail to answer any questions...
up 7 with 30 seconds left, with the ball. WHY?

Actually, I can understand the instinct to ask if you can save your TO. At 30 seconds, it's just now getting to the point where you could put in your subs. It's not like it's a 20 point lead.

He knows the standard is higher, he just got a bit snippy. God knows I've done that.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by tref

It surprises me that after 22 years of service, you didn't know we are held to a higher standard both on & off the court. Whether we are working, playing, coaching or spectating.

Its girls basketball, thats what they do!! They fall down & hurt themselves... After 15 years of service on that side, it surprises me that you dont know this either.

Perhaps I attacked you, perhaps I just pointed out the facts & you didnt like it. You STILL fail to answer any questions...
up 7 with 30 seconds left, with the ball. WHY?

I know it is a higher standard. I do not allow any of my girls to make calls on the court or from the bench, and win or lose they find every official after every game and say thank you.

It was stupid. I was more upset that after I helped the other coach's player he was the one who demanded I be charged with a timeout. And he was the coach on the officials all game.

Yeah, I got snippy. Sorry. I come in here and read all the time and respect what I read in here. The only thing missing is a Mark Padgett witty retort.

[BillyMac]

Little kid's game. During clock stopped, dead ball, little kid says, "Time out. Time out. I need to tie my shoe". You going to charge a time out? Same thing in high school subvarsity game? Varsity game?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Yeah, it was a bad comment. I was probably talking as an official at that moment and deserved the T.

Also, I do ultimately agree I should be held to a higher standard.

She really did go down pretty hard and wasn't moving. I truly was worried for her which is why I yelled timeout. Her dad came and thanked me after the game.

Anyhow, thanks again. I should have handled it better. I appreciate the people who point out I could have handled it better rather than attacking me. We need to keep each other on course at times and I veered off.

My previous posts in this thread were #4, #8, and #11. The sentiments which I express in those amount to what you wrote in the above post. You have a couple of other posts in this thread in which you write that I attacked you personally. I certainly don't believe that I did. Perhaps you will have the time to review my posts and then if you agree go back and edit yours.