2011 Tournament Discussion Redux

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by jophyal

I agree with the mechanics angle. If the call was made and mechanics were proper, a referee could state that. Hiding behind 80% rule, making up rules, and/or guessing short changes us all. Players, fans, officials, etc... would be better served if the calling official made a statement and stuck by it. Jim Joyce made a call, stated it was the best call he could make, and took his medicine like a MAN. Why is it so hard to admit that we, as officials, kick one every now and then. The ego of some of these Confereneces and officials is exactly why people are clammering for instant replay and gaining ground. Look at NFL's rule change yesterday concerning all scores being able to be reviewed without challenges. Just sayin'...

+1. We are humans and we can make mistakes. I think everyone understands that. It just hurts our credibility when we fail to admit a mistake.

Cartmell is an excellent official. This blown call doesn't change that. But, c'mon, in a game and spot of that magnitude, your arm swings have to match your count. It's really that simple, IMO. I think he may have gotten caught up in the moment...who knows? It happens. But, that doesn't change the fact that a mistake was probably made.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

+1. We are humans and we can make mistakes. I think everyone understands that. It just hurts our credibility when we fail to admit a mistake.

Cartmell is an excellent official. This blown call doesn't change that. But, c'mon, in a game and spot of that magnitude, your arm swings have to match your count. It's really that simple, IMO. I think he may have gotten caught up in the moment...who knows? It happens. But, that doesn't change the fact that a mistake was made.

Seriously? You think he should come on ESPN with a huge mea culpa? Really?

Wow.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Seriously? You think he should come on ESPN with a huge mea culpa? Really?

Wow.

Not at all. But, I don't think he should have referred to the 5 second count in his head. All I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, you don't make that call until you complete the 5th arm swing. It's such a crucial call, why not err on the side of having your mechanics match your call? I mean, isn't that why we provide visible counts in the first place?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

Not at all. But, I don't think he should have referred to the 5 second count in his head. All I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, you don't make that call until you complete the 5th arm swing. It's such a crucial call, why not err on the side of having your mechanics match your call? I mean, isn't that why we provide visible counts in the first place?

But you were giving a +1 to a post that, what, says he should have come out and announced his error a la Jim Joyce?

Or are you agreeing that people here were hiding behind the old 80% rule.

I found both comments to indicate a lack of reading comprehension; or he just skimmed the entire thread before commenting.

[jophyal]

I like the lack of reading comprehension comment... I can't speak for everyone in this site but 15 pages is hard to keep up with. My points were not as succinct as you experts who dominate this site. I am just looking to grow. That being said, again, I have not anyone bring up the mechanic of tossing the ball to player on endline. I was taught to hand the ball to the player. Who tosses the ball and who hands it to inbounding player?

[jophyal]

I never said he should come out. My point was that all of you are timing and debating this. All it takes is someone, any of us officials, to say something like,"I can see where people are confused. I should have done a better job by (fill in the blank). Are we better than anyone else who admits mistakes, errors, or admitys they could have done a better job. Oh yeah, I have noticed in my few posts that you select few are the end all.

Get better! Isn't that what we all want??

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jophyal

I never said he should come out. My point was that all of you are timing and debating this. All it takes is someone, any of us officials, to say something like,"I can see where people are confused. I should have done a better job by (fill in the blank). Are we better than anyone else who admits mistakes, errors, or admitys they could have done a better job.

That seems to have been the consensus here, from what I've read. His mechanics were off, but the call was pretty close.

Originally Posted by jophyal

Oh yeah, I have noticed in my few posts that you select few are the end all.

???

Originally Posted by jophyal

Get better! Isn't that what we all want??

How does that apply?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But you were giving a +1 to a post that, what, says he should have come out and announced his error a la Jim Joyce?

Or are you agreeing that people here were hiding behind the old 80% rule.

I found both comments to indicate a lack of reading comprehension; or he just skimmed the entire thread before commenting.

I had a call in my most recent game on a 10 second violation. There was a simultaneous whistle from the lead near the offensive team's bench. A time out was requested. And granted. (In the old days, it would have been too late. But, only players could request one back then. And I do not remember any instances of the other official granting one at 9 seconds. How would they know if they are watching their primary?) In any event, we went with the time out call as I am positive the request came before my 10th arm swing. Bottom line, if you are having trouble inbounding, don't wait till you are near the end of the count to request a TO.