2011 Tournament Discussion Redux

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

On the end of the UNC/Washington game -- is the clock operator supposed to stop the clock when the ball lands or when an officials signals that play stops due to OOB?

When reviewing on video, what are they looking for? When the ball actually touched out of bounds or when it was signaled out of bounds?

1. How in the world is the clock operator supposed to see when the ball lands?

2. John Adams addressed this on TV. IOW, always listen to bob.

[jearef]

The officials called a backcourt violation on Syracuse with approximately 30 seconds left. The violation occurred on a throw-in. Looked to me as if the player secured the ball while airborne, and landed with one foot on the division line, i.e., no violation. Anyone else see the play?

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by jearef

The officials called a backcourt violation on Syracuse with approximately 30 seconds left. The violation occurred on a throw-in. Looked to me as if the player secured the ball while airborne, and landed with one foot on the division line, i.e., no violation. Anyone else see the play?

I saw it, and it took a second, and then I realized it might be the wrong call. I'm sure it's wrong in HS.

But I also remember that college rules handle it slightly differently, and that it changed a year or two or three ago. Help please?

[APG]

It was incorrect. College and high school handles backcourt violations the exact same way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

I saw it, and it took a second, and then I realized it might be the wrong call. I'm sure it's wrong in HS.

But I also remember that college rules handle it slightly differently, and that it changed a year or two or three ago. Help please?

The rule is no different in college. IMO, it should not have been a BC violation. However I think he may have travelled. I need to see the replay again.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The rule is no different in college. IMO, it should not have been a BC violation. However I think he may have travelled. I need to see the replay again.

You are wise beyond your years. I had the same thought in real time. After looking at the replay in the other thread, there was no OOB violation by rule but he did travel after the play. The first foot down( the one on the center line) was established as the pivot foot when the second foot landed after that. He then picked up his pivot foot and put it back down in the front court. He got the proper result on the play....violation... but for the wrong reason.

[grunewar]

Ya gotta admit, with all the "controversies" going on in March Madness, the tournament was made for:

1) Fans,
2) Arm Chair Officials,
3) Critics,
4) TV,
5) Instant Replay,
6) Uniformed Announcers,
7) The internet (Forums, Chat Rooms, YouTube)
plus many more......

Great stuff!

And now, back to our regularly scheduled banter. Carry on!

[biz]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You are wise beyond your years. I had the same thought in real time. After looking at the replay in the other thread, there was no OOB violation by rule but he did travel after the play. The first foot down( the one on the center line) was established as the pivot foot when the second foot landed after that. He then picked up his pivot foot and put it back down in the front court. He got the proper result on the play....violation... but for the wrong reason.

Very true that it appears that he traveled, but in real time it's tough to say when he controls the ball. He appears to fumble the ball slightly with the one hand catch. While it is clear, when the video is slowed down, that he traveled it was far less clear at full speed.

It doesn't change the fact that this was not a backcourt violation which was the call. That is a tough miss in the closing seconds of a NCAA tournament game, and furthermore it is not a "judgement" call it was an improper application of the rules. I would love to hear what Mr. Adams has to say about this call, but unfortunately I don't think we'll hear from him on this because very few people realize that it was the improper call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

I saw it, and it took a second, and then I realized it might be the wrong call. I'm sure it's wrong in HS.

But I also remember that college rules handle it slightly differently, and that it changed a year or two or three ago. Help please?

7-6
Art. 8. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court.
Art. 9. After the throw-in ends, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

[cmhjordan23]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

7-6
Art. 8. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court.
Art. 9. After the throw-in ends, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

You posted yours while I was typing mine. Guess my question is answered.

[cmhjordan23]

Originally Posted by jearef

The officials called a backcourt violation on Syracuse with approximately 30 seconds left. The violation occurred on a throw-in. Looked to me as if the player secured the ball while airborne, and landed with one foot on the division line, i.e., no violation. Anyone else see the play?

What i saw was him landing in front court without ever starting team control and stepping on the line. Either way no BC violation. Is there a different rule for college.

[APG]

Originally Posted by cmhjordan23

What i saw was him landing in front court without ever starting team control and stepping on the line. Either way no BC violation. Is there a different rule for college.

Just want to point out that there is team control during a throw-in under NCAA rules

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by cmhjordan23

What i saw was him landing in front court without ever starting team control and stepping on the line. Either way no BC violation. Is there a different rule for college.

Why is everyone referring to TC? There is quite certainly TC in NCAA-M on a throw-in. TC is irrelevant to whether or not a backcourt violation should have been called on this play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by dcso77

that was not a back court, there is no team control on a throw in, cuse player was in the air, lands on the mid court line...

There is TC in NCAA-M on a throw-in. But TC is irrelevant on a throw-in b/c the backcourt exception is the same for NFHS as it is for NCAA.

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

1. How in the world is the clock operator supposed to see when the ball lands?

2. John Adams addressed this on TV. IOW, always listen to bob.

Yeah, that's what I thought. But I think I've seen several situations this year where the put time back on the clock based on what the video shows as opposed to when there is a ref's signal -- fouls in particular.