T-Worthy?

[Adam]

T

[JRutledge]

Was he saying because he missed the shot or because he thought he got fouled?

I still say I would have to be there. I could see passing on this or calling a T depending on the context or other actions.

Also who cares what the coach wants. The coach would go crazy if you called a T on his player for something you could not explain, so I tend to not care what they have to say about any T.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Was he saying because he missed the shot or because he thought he got fouled?

I still say I would have to be there. I could see passing on this or calling a T depending on the context or other actions.

Also who cares what the coach wants. The coach would go crazy if you called a T on his player for something you could not explain, so I tend to not care what they have to say about any T.

Peace

This is likely to be a regional thing, but I have yet to work in an area where an F-bomb loud enough for the opposing bench to hear is anything less than a T. If it can only be heard by me and a couple of his teammates, I'll give him a quick reminder to watch it (I always see the apologetic body language when I do this).

But come on, Jeff, you wouldn't be able to explain this pretty quickly?

"Coach, he dropped an F-bomb that was loud enough I can't ignore it."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But come on, Jeff, you wouldn't be able to explain this pretty quickly?

"Coach, he dropped an F-bomb that was loud enough I can't ignore it."

I did not say I could not explain it, I just want context. Let me put it this way. If I am in one setting if I T'd every kid that used a bad word, I would have 10 Ts a game (and throwing out multiple fans). If I went to another place, the use of that language would be unusual. And I would have no problem saying something to the kid, but giving a T is not always the right thing to do. Again, when the NF wants to put in certain language as a T, then I will follow that. Until then, I have discretion on these things. This would definitely be a "talk to" if I did not give a T.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say I could not explain it, I just want context. Let me put it this way. If I am in one setting if I T'd every kid that used a bad word, I would have 10 Ts a game (and throwing out multiple fans). If I went to another place, the use of that language would be unusual. And I would have no problem saying something to the kid, but giving a T is not always the right thing to do. Again, when the NF wants to put in certain language as a T, then I will follow that. Until then, I have discretion on these things. This would definitely be a "talk to" if I did not give a T.

Peace

Fair enough, but I thought the context was pretty clear in the OP. Player gets fouled. Foul gets called. Player watches ball roll off the rim, then drops the bomb. I'm assuming he's frustrated with the missed shot since he got the foul call. Even with that benefit of the doubt, he gets the T around here. And most coaches would then proceed to sit him for a bit. I understand there are areas you work where a T on that would get laughed at.

But regardless, no where in the OP is any ambiguity that could lead one to say he couldn't explain the call if he made it.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This is likely to be a regional thing, but I have yet to work in an area where an F-bomb loud enough for the opposing bench to hear is anything less than a T. If it can only be heard by me and a couple of his teammates, I'll give him a quick reminder to watch it (I always see the apologetic body language when I do this).

I'm pretty much in this camp. "Coach, he dropped the F-Bomb and that's unsporting."

I too have told a few kids, "Watch your mouth" when an expletive was mumbled under their breath or there was no one around. I'm not gonna be a plumber here. (No offense to our plumber friend. )

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I still say I would have to be there. I could see passing on this or calling a T depending on the context or other actions.

If it's that loud?

Sorry, but when they can hear it on the sidelines, it's pretty much automatic in every area that I've ever heard of. And I know you don't really believe in POE's either but the FED has been pretty explicit on how they want inappropriate laguage called. From just one of several POE's on it over the last few years:

The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. ....Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse.

I can see using a little discretion if it's not that loud. But if it can be heard in the stands, it's an automatic "T" in high school ball just about everywhere afaik.

[26 Year Gap]

I have T'd every single F-bomb I have heard--none have been solo nobody else could hear it. And I have never had a coach 2nd guess me when I said,"F-bomb".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If it's that loud?

Sorry, but when they can hear it on the sidelines, it's pretty much automatic in every area that I've ever heard of. And I know you don't really believe in POE's either but the FED has been pretty explicit on how they want inappropriate laguage called. From just one of several POE's on it over the last few years:

The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. ....Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse.

I can see using a little discretion if it's not that loud. But if it can be heard in the stands, it's an automatic "T" in high school ball just about everywhere afaik.

JR you can quote POEs all day that does not mean that we all will use the same standard or examples as what produces a T. I know kids that call each other things that are inappropriate, but I would never consider those to be something that is an "automatic" T. The POE is created by people that do not have to live in an area and do not understand the cultural, social-economic and social expectations from different areas. I also do not recall in your POE it says the loudness matters. Or what about if a kid blows out their knee and they start cursing (I have seen this one personally), are we T'ing that too?

How about this, is "D@mn" not OK? Better yet, what about "God D@mn?" Is "Sh!t" not OK? Is one player of the same race calling another player on their team a "slur" not OK? Or does it say only "F" bombs are over the top?

I am not telling you to call what you feel or that you are wrong. I am just saying my standard is not the “F-word” and that is so bad but all other words are OK. That is why context to me and loudness does matter, but not the only factor. To me it has got to be louder than the bench hearing it too. Maybe people in the first three or four rows, but not just the bench IMO.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know kids that call each other things that are inappropriate, but I would never consider those to be something that is an "automatic" T. The POE is created by people that do not have to live in an area and do not understand the cultural, social-economic and social expectations from different areas.

If kids hurling f bombs at each other is ok, your social-economic system needs adjustment. We can't change the world, but we can control our little part of it. Call the T.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If kids hurling f bombs at each other is ok, your social-economic system needs adjustment. We can't change the world, but we can control our little part of it. Call the T.

You work games for the same price you have for almost 20 years and you are questioning what I do in my little neck of the woods?

Irony!!!!

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You work games for the same price you have for almost 20 years and you are questioning what I do in my little neck of the woods?

Irony!!!!

Peace

Certainly a relevant point. Nice job, Rut.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have only read the first page of post and feel that I cannot wait to jump into the fray.

There is no context to examine in the OP. This is a no brainer and is definitely what the recent NFHS POE's have addressed.

Ladies and germs (I mean gentlemen) I have been on construction sites all of my adult life and even before that. I have heard every profane word that one can think of and:

a) If you have no hair, I can make you grow it;
b) If you have hair, I can make it fall out;
c) If your hair is straight, I can curl it; and
d) If you hair is curly, I can straighten it.

I think you get my drift. And the OP is a TF every time. There is no excuse not to charge A1 with a TF.

MTD, Sr.

[Tio]

I work in a conference where they tell us profanity = T. I work in other conferences which tell us to manage the situation as we see fit.

In a HS game, I would probably call a T.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

JR you can quote POEs all day that does not mean that we all will use the same standard or examples as what produces a T. I know kids that call each other things that are inappropriate, but I would never consider those to be something that is an "automatic" T. The POE is created by people that do not have to live in an area and do not understand the cultural, social-economic and social expectations from different areas. I also do not recall in your POE it says the loudness matters. Or what about if a kid blows out their knee and they start cursing (I have seen this one personally), are we T'ing that too?

How about this, is "D@mn" not OK? Better yet, what about "God D@mn?" Is "Sh!t" not OK? Is one player of the same race calling another player on their team a "slur" not OK? Or does it say only "F" bombs are over the top?

I am not telling you to call what you feel or that you are wrong. I am just saying my standard is not the “F-word” and that is so bad but all other words are OK. That is why context to me and loudness does matter, but not the only factor. To me it has got to be louder than the bench hearing it too. Maybe people in the first three or four rows, but not just the bench IMO.

Jeff, I've talked to officials from sea to shining sea and they all pretty much say the following is fairly accurate in their area:

Automatic Techical Foul for Inappropriate Language(such as Fshots):
1) directed at an official or an opponent
2) loud enough to be heard in stands

Judgment Used:
1) not loud enough to be heard out of the immediate vicinity and not directed at an official or opponent.
2) extenuating circumstances like an injury.

And you want to know what is amazing to me...fwiw? I've had officials in your area agree with that also. So, I guess we'll just have have to differ on this one.

Does anybody else call it differently in their area that what I've said above?