Player returns from out of bounds

whistleblower · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 03, 2002, 07:04pm

A1 saves the ball before going out of bounds himself. A1 comes back onto the court, and is the first person to touch the ball when he secures possession of it. I call a violation. My partner after the game asked me if A1 had re-established himself inbounds? I don't think it matters, he went out of bounds and was the first person to touch the ball again. Comments?

hawkk · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 03, 2002, 07:09pm

That's a good call . . . in football.

Seriously, what rule did he violate? He wasn't out of bounds when he touched the ball. It's *possible* that a play like this could be a double dribble (A1 had been dribbling and grabbed the ball to toss it back in and continued to dribble) or a travel (A1 had possesion on the ground, was falling OOB and jumped up and tossed the ball to the floor: travel b/c he began the dribble by lifting his pivot foot), but both are pretty unlikely. It's a good play by A1

Jurassic Referee · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 03, 2002, 07:15pm

Whistleblower,check out casebook play 7.1.1SitB&C. That should help you out.

JThompson · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 03, 2002, 09:48pm

...during my first EVER game Saturday. Packed house for a JV game in Ohio. Working three man with two other guys (five and seven years experience), and had a guy do exactly the same thing happen right in front of me as center coming upcourt. Young man lost possession of the ball right in front of him, fell over with one hand out of bounds (while ball is on floor in bounds) got back up, re-established position, and was the first to touch the ball.

I allowed play to continue, but my partner with seven years experience (who was trail other side) tooted his whistle to say that he could not be the first to touch. I knew what the rule was, but passed (my mistake) on questioning him because he has seven years and I am first year. We talked about it after the game, and he agreed (a little too late) that he was wrong and I was right.

I guess my only mistake was not speaking up when I knew I was right instead of conceding to his experience.

Lesson learned. I'll know better next time.

John

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 03, 2002, 09:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by hawkk
That's a good call . . . in football.

No, it isn't.

In fact, in football, a player can jump from OOB and touch or gain control of the ball, and the ball is not OOB. "You are where you were, until you get where you're going" does not apply in high school football.

Bart Tyson · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 03, 2002, 10:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JThompson
...

I guess my only mistake was not speaking up when I knew I was right instead of conceding to his experience.

Lesson learned. I'll know better next time.

John

I think you handled it correctly, don't dispute your partner on the court. Talk about it after the game, as your did. good job.

bossref · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 03:57am

In our group, we publish a short list
of Most Misunderstood Rules.

If a player's momentum takes him off the court,
he can be the first to touch the ball as long as
(1) he comes back inbounds at approximately the same spot,
and (2) he has SOMETHING IN and NOTHING OUT.

Nevadaref · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 07:04am

Bart,
I must disagree. JT should have brought his partner over and asked him what he saw. After getting his partner's explanation he would have KNOWN that his partner goofed the rule and JT should have then convinced him that since the play was right in front of him, he was giving the ball back to the proper team and would take the heat if he were incorrect.
Now I am not saying make a scene on the court, but also don't let someone overrule a play right in front of you that you saw clearly when you know they are wrong! I don't care how many years he has. Years and correctness don't automatically equate.

Self · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 08:04am

In the NFL if the player goes out or is forced OOB he is no longer eligible to catch a pass. Do not know what penalty is but he can't catch the ball if he has stepped out of bounds.

ChuckElias · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 08:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by Self
In the NFL if the player goes out or is forced OOB he is no longer eligible to catch a pass. Do not know what penalty is but he can't catch the ball if he has stepped out of bounds.

Hmmm, Self, I'm no NFL ref, but I'm pretty sure that's not true. I think the penalty is for being the first to touch the ball after being OOB. He can catch the ball, or recover a fumble, as long as he's not the first one to make contact with the ball. I think. Come on, Tony.

Chuck

Self · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 08:48am

So Bskballref I I both were wrong...

9. If an eligible receiver goes out of bounds accidentally or is legally forced out by a defender and returns to first touch and catch a pass, the play is regarded as an incomplete pass. Loss of 5 yards.

hawkk · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 09:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by Self
No, it isn't.

In fact, in football, a player can jump from OOB and touch or gain control of the ball, and the ball is not OOB. "You are where you were, until you get where you're going" does not apply in high school football.

Oh, what do I know -- though it sounds like it is an NFL rule. I thought this was the Bball rule, and was told it was a rule people erroneously brought over from football. I learned this rule when I argued the wrong side of it in a dispute at the gym. Sad to say I won the argument . . . then I found the other board, and started to understand the rules . . . I've lost a lot of rules arguments since, but I haven't been wrong since . . .

BktBallRef · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 11:56am

Since when do we discuss NFL rules on this forum. Note that my post doesn't say anything about NFL rules. Under NFHS rules, it is not a foul for a player to touch the ball after being OOB.

Who gives a flip about what the NFL rule is? It's not football, it's entertainment, just like the NBA.

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 12:04pm

That is not true Tony. Under NFHS Football Rules, there are many situations that it is illegal to touch a ball or to participate if you touch the ball or if you make a tackle. It all depends on who does it and why they do it. It might not be an out of bounds violation (lack of a better term for this discussion), but it can be penalized on many levels. The question comes from football logic, but unfortunately football logic does not translate to basketball logic in this case. There is not the same distinction for player location in football as it is for basketball. Completely different issues.

Peace

Hawks Coach · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 04, 2002, 12:40pm

This is only a violation in basketball if the ref takes his hat off and throws it on the spot where the player left the court. If you didn't bring your hat, it's not a violation.