My correctable error

[Rich]

I hadn't had a correctable error in years. Till last night.

The ball was loose and one player from each team was going after the ball. A player from the visiting team dove and retrieved the ball in both hands, but was a bit out of control and in mid-dive her legs swept through the legs of the player on the other team (who was standing on both feet) who ended up falling on top of the other player. To me, it was a no brainer foul on the girl who retrieved the ball. The other player doesn't fall on top of her without having her legs taken out.

Weird play and we go to the other end to shoot a 1-and-1. As the shooter prepares to shoot the ball, the coach is talking to me, "But she had the ball.....but she had the ball...."

I know the coach was probably trying to say that the player with the ball couldn't foul, but another light went on in my head at that moment. I blew my whistle as the shooter was just releasing the first free throw and (with the benefit of a hushed gym that was probably confused by the whistle) explained we had a correctable error (I guess I corrected it just before the error, but whatever) and that we had a player control foul and there would be no free throws. I went to the table and explained the situation (I was hoping they'd announce it over the PA system, but they didn't) and then went to the home coach and explained why there were no free throws and he quickly understood.

We went to the other end and inbounded the ball.

I'd rather suffer through 30 seconds of embarrassment and get the result right than let it go and realize later that I got it wrong.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I hadn't had a correctable error in years. Till last night.

The ball was loose and one player from each team was going after the ball. A player from the visiting team dove and retrieved the ball in both hands, but was a bit out of control and in mid-dive her legs swept through the legs of the player on the other team (who was standing on both feet) who ended up falling on top of the other player. To me, it was a no brainer foul on the girl who retrieved the ball. The other player doesn't fall on top of her without having her legs taken out.

Weird play and we go to the other end to shoot a 1-and-1. As the shooter prepares to shoot the ball, the coach is talking to me, "But she had the ball.....but she had the ball...."

I know the coach was probably trying to say that the player with the ball couldn't foul, but another light went on in my head at that moment. I blew my whistle as the shooter was just releasing the first free throw and (with the benefit of a hushed gym that was probably confused by the whistle) explained we had a correctable error (I guess I corrected it just before the error, but whatever) and that we had a player control foul and there would be no free throws. I went to the table and explained the situation (I was hoping they'd announce it over the PA system, but they didn't) and then went to the home coach and explained why there were no free throws and he quickly understood.

We went to the other end and inbounded the ball.

I'd rather suffer through 30 seconds of embarrassment and get the result right than let it go and realize later that I got it wrong.

The best correctable errors are those corrected before they become errors.
Nice outcome.

[JugglingReferee]

Good catch.

I find that judging those loose ball plays is difficult to determine if fouls were TC or not.

[walter]

Sounds like you got it right. I agree, 30 secs of hearing the howlers is worth bearing to get it right.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'd rather suffer through 30 seconds of embarrassment and get the result right than let it go and realize later that I got it wrong.

+1

That's a sentiment that newer officials here ought to take to heart. It reflects an open-mindedness and willingness to critique oneself in real time in order to get the call right.

If the FT shooter had the ball, you had already awarded an unmerited FT, so this was indeed a correctable error. Good call!

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Good catch.

I find that judging those loose ball plays is difficult to determine if fouls were TC or not.

That is correct...if the Visiting team had control before the "loose ball"...there would not have been any FTs anyway, it would have been a TC foul.

This is one that many coaches and fans have trouble with.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

That is correct...if the Visiting team had control before the "loose ball"...there would not have been any FTs anyway, it would have been a TC foul.

This is one that many coaches and fans have trouble with.

What's worse are the cases on in bounds plays. A1 in bounds the ball and the ball is not immediately secured and a loose ball ensues. A2 and B2 go for the ball........ Does A2 grab the ball/after before his legs swipe at B2's calfs?

[chartrusepengui]

Sometimes it pays to actually listen to a coach without dismissing everything they have to say before it enters our ears!!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

That is correct...if the Visiting team had control before the "loose ball"...there would not have been any FTs anyway, it would have been a TC foul.

This is one that many coaches and fans have trouble with.

They didn't. H had possession in their frontcourt and the ball was knocked away and V recovered it just before she committed the foul. Good point, though. Team control is not always straight forward.

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I hadn't had a correctable error in years. Till last night.

The ball was loose and one player from each team was going after the ball. A player from the visiting team dove and retrieved the ball in both hands, but was a bit out of control and in mid-dive her legs swept through the legs of the player on the other team (who was standing on both feet) who ended up falling on top of the other player. To me, it was a no brainer foul on the girl who retrieved the ball. The other player doesn't fall on top of her without having her legs taken out.

Weird play and we go to the other end to shoot a 1-and-1. As the shooter prepares to shoot the ball, the coach is talking to me, "But she had the ball.....but she had the ball...."

I know the coach was probably trying to say that the player with the ball couldn't foul, but another light went on in my head at that moment. I blew my whistle as the shooter was just releasing the first free throw and (with the benefit of a hushed gym that was probably confused by the whistle) explained we had a correctable error (I guess I corrected it just before the error, but whatever) and that we had a player control foul and there would be no free throws. I went to the table and explained the situation (I was hoping they'd announce it over the PA system, but they didn't) and then went to the home coach and explained why there were no free throws and he quickly understood.

We went to the other end and inbounded the ball.

I'd rather suffer through 30 seconds of embarrassment and get the result right than let it go and realize later that I got it wrong.

Never thought I'd say this but "thank God for the coaches comment!"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Sometimes it pays to actually listen to a coach without dismissing everything they have to say before it enters our ears!!

This coach earned my ear, BTW. Both coaches last night were absolutely respectful, they asked good questions, and most importantly, listened to my answers.

I will say I'm not sure that's what the coach was driving at. For those of you that watch House on TV, there's always a moment when someone else is droning on about something that House gets his moment of clarity. It was a lot like that.

[Judtech]

....oh I thought this thread was about my Ex...........

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'd rather suffer through 30 seconds of embarrassment and get the result right than let it go and realize later that I got it wrong.

+2

I believe, more often than not, most officials feel this way.

I had a similar one in my last regular season game, the only difference is I prevented a correctable error. I'm working with a 30+ year vet, JV boys. He's the T, and had a loose ball foul near the division line on an offensive player. He reports it, white #23, illegal contact, shooting 1-and-1. The players go to line up.

A light goes off in my head. I never saw the contact, but white was indeed taking up the ball, so that can't possibly be anything but a TC foul, right?

I speak with my partner in the reporting area.
"That's team control, right?"
"23 white, it was a loose ball."
"That's still team control, right?"
(pause... wait for it.... light bulb!...grin)
"You're right. Blue ball."
"I got this."

He informs the table it's a blue ball on the sideline. I take it out to make it look smooth, though it just occurred to me we forgot to switch.

[chymechowder]

Question from a rookie official:

Does an intentional foul "trump" a team control foul?

Say A1 is dribbling and backing over the division line into his front court. He dribbles it off his foot and it rolls into his backcourt. B1 runs past A1 to retrieve the ball. A1 grabs B1 by the back of the shirt to prevent B1 from scooping it up en route to an easy layup?

So is this intentional? Two shots and possession for B?

Or is it a TC foul? Just a throw-in for B?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

Question from a rookie official:

Does an intentional foul "trump" a team control foul?

Say A1 is dribbling and backing over the division line into his front court. He dribbles it off his foot and it rolls into his backcourt. B1 runs past A1 to retrieve the ball. A1 grabs B1 by the back of the shirt to prevent B1 from scooping it up en route to an easy layup?

So is this intentional? Two shots and possession for B?

Or is it a TC foul? Just a throw-in for B?

A team control foul is a common foul. If the foul is deemed intentional it is not a common foul.