"Short Gyms" Division Line is still Division Line?

[rockyroad]

My son's team plays against a school that has this situation. Their court has three lines - the "normal" center court line for the center circle jump ball and subsequent quarter throw-ins, and then two other lines about 5 feet on either side of that. To get into the frontcourt, you have to cross the extra line closest to your basket (not the center line), and then to have an over and back violation, you have to cross the line farthest from your basket.

Kind of weird the first few times we played there, but now everyone knows and it's no big deal.

[hoopguy]

I used to play in an outdoor court pick up game in Florday in the 80s on a court with these types of markings. Everyone who played there knew and enforced the backcourt rule. If you were new to the court, tough luck and don't make the same mistake again.

That court had some really good games but weird structure. Saw more than a few players slam into the poles holding up the backboard that were right next to the endline. A little bump on an endline drive and slam!

[NoFussRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

My son's team plays against a school that has this situation. Their court has three lines - the "normal" center court line for the center circle jump ball and subsequent quarter throw-ins, and then two other lines about 5 feet on either side of that. To get into the frontcourt, you have to cross the extra line closest to your basket (not the center line), and then to have an over and back violation, you have to cross the line farthest from your basket.

Kind of weird the first few times we played there, but now everyone knows and it's no big deal.

Ah, good point. So to clarify...

10sec count till offense crosses the division line nearest their FC endline, then no BC violation unless they cross back over the division line farthest from their FC endline.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Ah, good point. So to clarify...

10sec count till offense crosses the division line nearest their FC endline, then no BC violation unless they cross back over the division line farthest from their FC endline.

Typically, check with the home team, though, and make sure everyone (coaches) is on the same page.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Ah, good point. So to clarify...

10sec count till offense crosses the division line nearest their FC endline, then no BC violation unless they cross back over the division line farthest from their FC endline.

In this particular gym - yes.

Made for some pretty interesting crowd reactions the first year we played that school. Took some explaining to some of the other parents to get them to calm down!

[JugglingReferee]

SECTION 3 CENTER RESTRAINING CIRCLE, DIVIDING LINE

ART. 2 . . . A division line 2 inches wide, shall divide the court into two equal
arts. If the court is less than 74 feet long, it should be divided by two lines, each parallel to and 40 feet from the farther end line.


I believe that the DL line is still used for the 10-second line, and the BC line for a BC violation. IOW, a team gets 40 feet of FC space in which to work.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

SECTION 3 CENTER RESTRAINING CIRCLE, DIVIDING LINE

ART. 2 . . . A division line 2 inches wide, shall divide the court into two equal
arts. If the court is less than 74 feet long, it should be divided by two lines, each parallel to and 40 feet from the farther end line.


I believe that the DL line is still used for the 10-second line, and the BC line for a BC violation. IOW, a team gets 40 feet of FC space in which to work.

In the gym's I've seen this at, the center line is sitll used as the ten second line. Once FC status is attained with the center line, the offense than can retreat back to the 40 line before the BC violation applies.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

To get into the frontcourt, you have to cross the extra line closest to your basket (not the center line), and then to have an over and back violation, you have to cross the line farthest from your basket.

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

10sec count till offense crosses the division line nearest their FC endline, then no BC violation unless they cross back over the division line farthest from their FC endline.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Typically, check with the home team, though, and make sure everyone (coaches) is on the same page.

Which line is to be used for the purposes of the 10 second count is not specified in the book and I could see arguments for using any of the three.

However, I'd be inclined to use one line for each team for all purposes...the one farthest from their basket.

The main purpose of the 10 second count is to prevent a team from using the space of the entire court for more than 10 seconds, not that they have to move it forward a certain distance. Once they've got it past the line farthest from their basket, they'd be in the space normally permitted.

Whatever you choose, COMMUNICATE it.

Last time I had this situation, it was when two teams both had facilities problems and were using another gym that they could get....one unfamiliar to either. Well before tipoff, we informed the coaches and suggested they instruct their players.

Just before tip-off, I took a moment to address the small crowd to avoid the inevitable screaming for over-and-back...no need getting them all worked up over an unusual situation. It still happened with a few late arrivals. Usually, the fans near them clued them in. In a couple of cases, I informed them during a timeout/intermissions. Once everyone knew the situation, there was no issue.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Which line is to be used for the purposes of the 10 second count is not specified in the book and I could see arguments for using any of the three.

However, I'd be inclined to use the one line for each team for all purposes...the one farthest from their basket.

The main purpose of the 10 second count is to prevent a team from using the space of the entire court for more than 10 seconds, not that they have to move it forward a certain distance. Once they've got it past the line farthest from their basket, they'd be in the space normally permitted.

Whatever you choose, COMMUNICATE it.

Last time I had this situation, it was when two teams both had facilities problems and were using another gym that they could get....one unfamiliar to either. Well before tipoff, we informed the coaches and suggested they instruct their players.

Just before tip-off, I took a moment to address the small crowd to avoid the inevitable screaming for over-and-back...no need getting them all worked up over an unusual situation. It still happened with a few late arrivals. Usually, the fans near them clued them in. In a couple of cases, I informed them during a timeout/intermissions. Once everyone knew the situation, there was no issue.

This is good advice for anything that is out of the ordinary - and out of the ordinary from the players and coaches and fans' perspective, not the official's.

Also good advice. I had an OT football game last season, with a very large. I know that addressing the fans made a world of difference.

[bainsey]

I worked a tiny court with that rule this year. First time in six years. Needed a GPS to find the place.

There was only the two-foot circle for the jump ball (we had to "guess" six feet for everyone else -- it worked), and we used the volleyball lines (which didn't extend all the way across) as division lines, once the center division line was crossed. The table was in a corner, too.

Sometimes, you just have to make do with what you have.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

My son's team plays against a school that has this situation. Their court has three lines - the "normal" center court line for the center circle jump ball and subsequent quarter throw-ins, and then two other lines about 5 feet on either side of that. To get into the frontcourt, you have to cross the extra line closest to your basket (not the center line), and then to have an over and back violation, you have to cross the line farthest from your basket.

Kind of weird the first few times we played there, but now everyone knows and it's no big deal.

I remember doing a few games in gyms like this. Visiting team there for the first time would invariably commit one or two back court violations before getting used to it. Home team coach was quick to remind an official about the rule in case the official should also forget about the rule.