Over and back rule

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

While I agree with your point here...

One could question whether a player could "control the direction of a tip/tap"- without holding the ball. Even if momentarily (splitting atoms here), If a player rotates their hand to direct a tap would you consider this holding the ball? If a player does this while dribbling we call it a "carry".

Absolutely, one can control the direction of a tip/tap without holding the ball. In fact, the whole sport of volleyball is built around controlling a ball by tipping, tapping and striking a ball without ever holding it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

The whole sport of volleyball is built around controlling a ball by tipping, tapping and striking a ball without ever holding it.

Good point. How does the NHFS define holding (going way back to my high school physical education classes: holding is illegal) in the volleyball rules?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

While I agree with your point here...

One could question whether a player could "control the direction of a tip/tap"- without holding the ball. Even if momentarily (splitting atoms here), If a player rotates their hand to direct a tap would you consider this holding the ball? If a player does this while dribbling we call it a "carry".

We call the carry when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, which is virtually the same way we determine if they held it.

If, however, a dribbler taps the ball upwards, this is perfectly legal as long as it hits the floor before the dribbler touches the ball again. It's perfectly possible for a player to "control" a tap to a teammate (or away from an opponent) without ever gaining player control. Whether the ball goes where it was intended to go is not relevant.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

One could question whether a player could "control the direction of a tip/tap"- without holding the ball.

Of course you can. What happens on every jump ball to start every game??? The two jumpers try to bat the ball in a certain direction. They're not just flailing away, hoping to make contact. They're trying (or at least, hoping) to direct to a teammate.

But they obviously are not allowed to hold the ball; that would be a violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What happens on every jump ball to start every game??? The two jumpers try to bat the ball in a certain direction. They're trying (or at least, hoping) to direct to a teammate. But they obviously are not allowed to hold the ball; that would be a violation.

Good point. Similar to the volleyball analogy, above.

Of course, we could always ask ourselves if we would grant a request for a timeout during the bat in a jump ball? That would clinch the deal.