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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 03:21pm
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Disconcerting

My attempt to improve my postings.

Had a coach of a junior high team ask me about a player yelling: "Miss It!" while A) sitting on the and B) while in the game as the FT shooter was attempting.

Under rule 9.1.c and in the case book (9.1.3), I think I can assume this is certain to be disconcerting and be called a violation.

However, can this also be call unsportinglike from the bench and issued a warning and/or a technical foul?

Any help to this coach on educating him of this rule ... thanks! Hope that was a better post.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 03:25pm
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Delayed violation- if missed reshoot the free throw and tell violator that they're in violation and knock it off!

Delayed violation- if made, count shot and tell violator they're in violation and knock it off.

If it continues, then whack!

Usually the knock it off handles it with the kids.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 03:26pm
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Yes, it's disconcertion from both locations.

Depending on the level of ball, I've called it and warned others.

Never issued a T on the bench though.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 03:27pm
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At a minimum, it's disconcerting. If the player does it again, instruct the coach that a further incident will results in an unsportsmanlike technical foul. This action by the non-shooters is approaching making a travesty of the game.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 04:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
My attempt to improve my postings.

Had a coach of a junior high team ask me about a player yelling: "Miss It!" while A) sitting on the and B) while in the game as the FT shooter was attempting.

Under rule 9.1.c and in the case book (9.1.3), I think I can assume this is certain to be disconcerting and be called a violation.

However, can this also be call unsportinglike from the bench and issued a warning and/or a technical foul?

Any help to this coach on educating him of this rule ... thanks! Hope that was a better post.

Your a good sport Johnny. And yes, this is the kind of post I expect from a veteran official.

As for rulings. Bench personnel will get a warning the first time and a T subsequently.
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Last edited by Raymond; Sun Feb 20, 2011 at 04:19pm.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 04:24pm
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Disconcertion in both A and B.

If they don't get the message, then it continues to be disconcertion. The coach will shut them down pretty quickly.

If the first basket is made, then I'm telling them to knock it off (the exact way of delivering this will depend on the game) so they know -- they probably didn't see the extended arm.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 04:40pm
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Thanks!

Much of this is what I told the coach. Just wanted to see if there was anymore that could be added ... he views this thread. So, all of your input was helpful.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 04:43pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Disconcertion in both A and B.

If they don't get the message, then it continues to be disconcertion. The coach will shut them down pretty quickly.

If the first basket is made, then I'm telling them to knock it off (the exact way of delivering this will depend on the game) so they know -- they probably didn't see the extended arm.

Exactly. No matter how many times he does it, it's disconcertion. It's not a technical foul.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 05:20pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Exactly. No matter how many times he does it, it's disconcertion. It's not a technical foul.
You're a good sport too.

I'm not.

If they continue to do it after being warned, I'm "T"ing 'em up in a hearbeat for unsporting behavior. If you don't, there's no use of warning them in the first place. I won't let them make a farce out of the game with repeated violations. And I've got very specific instructions from the NFHS to back me up. From the 2001-02 rule book:

POE #2 Disconcertion During Free Throw:
"The committe emphasizes that disconcertion is a violation and may result in a substitute throw. If persistent or deemed unsporting, the team/player may be penalized with a technical foul.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 06:52pm
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So, help me out. What are your limits to actions by the bench personnel during a free-throw, in regards to disconcertation? Sometimes they're just making noise, yelling "hey-ey-ey, and so forth."
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 06:56pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
You're a good sport too.

I'm not.

If they continue to do it after being warned, I'm "T"ing 'em up in a hearbeat for unsporting behavior. If you don't, there's no use of warning them in the first place. I won't let them make a farce out of the game with repeated violations. And I've got very specific instructions from the NFHS to back me up. From the 2001-02 rule book:

POE #2 Disconcertion During Free Throw:
"The committe emphasizes that disconcertion is a violation and may result in a substitute throw. If persistent or deemed unsporting, the team/player may be penalized with a technical foul.
+1

"Persistent or unsporting": I treat these separately. Persistent disconcerting gets a warning. If I have to call a subsequent technical foul, it's for ignoring the warning, not the disconcertion per se.

Unsporting disconcertion would be shouting an obscenity or epithet or the like. That warrants an immediate T without warning.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 06:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
So, help me out. What are your limits to actions by the bench personnel during a free-throw, in regards to disconcertation? Sometimes they're just making noise, yelling "hey-ey-ey, and so forth."
I use discretion here. I don't mind players and coaches talking, etc.

But, if I feel that they are doing it just before the player is about to shoot, for the purpose of "messing" with (disconcerting) the shooter, I will call it.

For example, right as the shooter goes to take his shot, the kid next to him yells really loud, "I got shooter!" My arm goes out.

But, it the player would do that as normal conversation, and stop before the player shoots, I've got nothing.

If the coach or bench players are yelling or yapping, I got nothing. But, if they do it right before the shooter shoots just to disturb him and throw off his concentration, I'll put my hand out.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 07:01pm
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Sorta OT

Had a game today where this subject came up. The place was paced with a dozen fans......
Twice during FT's in the first half a fans cell phone went off. It was loud but had a good beat. The question was--- would this fall under an artificial noise maker and should we have called a disconcertion on the FT? Both times the FT went in and it only happened once in the second half. Just got me curious.
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 07:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
I use discretion here. I don't mind players and coaches talking, etc.

But, if I feel that they are doing it just before the player is about to shoot, for the purpose of "messing" with (disconcerting) the shooter, I will call it.

For example, right as the shooter goes to take his shot, the kid next to him yells really loud, "I got shooter!" My arm goes out.

But, it the player would do that as normal conversation, and stop before the player shoots, I've got nothing.

If the coach or bench players are yelling or yapping, I got nothing. But, if they do it right before the shooter shoots just to disturb him and throw off his concentration, I'll put my hand out.
Thanks. I do a lot of mentoring of young officials, and this subject hasn't come up lately. Your response regarding bench personnel is the part I really needed.
BTW, this forum is great! The answers, references, and the humor have cost me a lot of hours of sleep this season, because I just can't hit the sack without reviewing every subject and post. But it's well worth it to me. Thanks, again!
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Old Sun Feb 20, 2011, 07:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
Had a game today where this subject came up. The place was paced with a dozen fans......
Twice during FT's in the first half a fans cell phone went off. It was loud but had a good beat. The question was--- would this fall under an artificial noise maker and should we have called a disconcertion on the FT? Both times the FT went in and it only happened once in the second half. Just got me curious.
Don't even think about it.
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