Disconcerting action.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

B1 is awarded two free throws with five seconds left in the fourth quarter and the score is tied. B1 misses the first free throw. As B1 starts to shoot her second free throw, Coach A starts to yell to his players: "Block out, block out." Coach A had not done this during any other free throw attempt by Team B during the entire game. B1 missed the second free throw and I whistled a Coach B for disconcerting action. B1 makes the free throw and Team B wins the game by one point.

Coach A played innocent with me by saying that he did not know he could not yell instructions while B1 was shooting her free throws. It is my opinion that disconcerting action by bench personal is a unsportsmanlike technical foul and not a violation but that is another thread alltogether. I know that there are people out there that are of the opinion that I determined the outcome of the game because this call had not been made all game long, but nobody form Team A's bench had done anything like this all game long, and I can assure you that I would have loved to have this type of violation happen early in the game so that it can be taken care of it before it might effect the outcome of the game. Needless to say, Coach A was not very happy with me.

[firedoc]

I don't have my rule book in front of me right now, but I do not think that disconcertion can come from bench personnel. It seems to me that the rule was intended to prevent "players" from disconcerting the free thrower. That said, though, I agree that perhaps something should be added to the rule or case book with such an occurrence that you have described. Such a reference would help to clarify what is right or wrong in the action you took.

[mick]

Mark T.,
If the coach was yelling and the crowd was yelling, would you have penalized the coach?
That is certainly a tough call.
mick

[Nevadaref]

Mark, I like the call. He was definitely doing something that he thought would give his team an edge. I can also see your point that this could be an unsporting foul, hence a T.
BTW the rule says no opponent may disconcert the free thrower. To me, all members of the opposing bench personnel fall under the classification of opponent.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I thought the call was an easy one to make. I do not have my rules book in front of me, but a free throw is defined as an unhindered attempt to score one point. When opponents on the court or bench personal from the opponents bench are yelling during a player's free throw attempt that is defined as disconcerting action. The crowd yelling at during the free throw attempt is not disconcerting action.

[BktBallRef]

I beleive in previous discussions, you have maintained that the bench could not disconcert. If you feel this warrants a T, then why did you call a violation?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I have to reiterate (there's that word again) that the section in the NF rulebook that says an "opponent" cannot disconcert is listed under a heading at the beginning of the rule that identifies all the subheadings as pertaining to "players"...

No, it doesn't. Articles 1 and 2 are listed under the topic, "A player shall not violate the following provisions governing free throws."

Disconcertion is found in Article 5 and is listed under the topic. "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower: No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower."

Any opponent can be called for disconcertion.

[ballsandstrikes]

of COURSE the bench can come under the rule. What if the players on the bench all started banging their chairs or waving towels over their heads? yes the fans may be doing it but the players and coaches on the floor have to be held to a higher level.

[zebraman]

I don't get it. I always thought, "block out, block out" was something that coaches said. I don't think I could ever assume that the coach was intentionally disconcerting. I've seen many situations where the team forgot to block out in this situation and team B rebounds their miss and scores. Coaches reminding their players to block out is reasonable. I don't make that call unless I am 100% sure that the coach was trying to disconcert and as long as he/she is saying "coaching stuff," I cannot be 100% sure.

Z

[rainmaker]

It seems to me it ought to depend on the level, the atmosphere, and the history. If the coach had never done it throughout the whole game, and on the last free throw, in the last five seconds he does that, it's different from a coach that yells during every free throw. If it's a varsity game in a packed gym with everyone going wild, then tough! But if it's freshmen and there are only nine fans, and there's a dead silence, and suddenly there's this weird voice, well, I guess I'd be with MTD. I've told benches to stop trying to disconcert, although I've never awarded the substitute throw. But at JV level and above, coaches ought to run at least a few practice free throws with some crowd noise and bench noise just to help kids get over it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
It is my opinion that disconcerting action by bench personal is a unsportsmanlike technical foul and not a violation but that is another thread alltogether..

Disconcertion was a POE in last year's rule book,if anybody's still got it(#2 on p68).The POE read "if(disconcertion)is persistent or deemed unsporting,the team/player may be penalized with a technical foul". If I remember right,there was an interpretation on the NFHS website that explained that disconcertion applied to all opponents,including bench personnel as defined in R4-34-2.The play said that you could call a T on somebody on the bench,in addition to a disconcertion violation,if you felt that their disconcertion was also unsportsmanlike.It further explained that if you couldn't identify the person on the bench who was disconcerting in an unsporting manner,you charged the opponents with a team T. This play was taken down at the start of the current season,but is still valid.

This was also a major argument in a thread about a year and a half ago on the other website.Someone(and I think it was MTD SR hisself)e-mailed someone on the FED rules committee and got an interpretation that disconcertion did indeed apply to the bench.Gone but not forgotten.

[Troward]

I referee subvaristy games and I have learned a lot about disconcertion from this discussion.
In a game earlier this year I had a team whose players on the bench were yelling out players like "PRESS" or "RAIDER" everytime an opposing player went to shoot. I didn't call anything b/c the game was a blow out and I wasn't so concious of the disoncertion rule at the time.

My question is in regards to consistency because I have this team 3 more times this season and is it fair for me to whistle a disconcertion violation on them when I did not in the last game? do you start each new game with a clean slate with regards to consistency of calls?
What would you say when the coach says" That wasn't last a violation last game, how is it fair to call disconcertion now that it is a close game?"?

[williebfree]

As you indicated, there were several factors that weighed into your decision for NOT addressing that behavior in the previous game.

IF the coach challenges you about the difference in treatment, I would tell him that this is a new game and this is your standard, here and now. HE has a choice of where it goes from here. If HE persists on haggling, give him the universal "stop sign." Additionally, If you have warned the bench for unsporting behavior and they continue, THEY have forced the issue. You are there to enforce the rules.

This is a situation of gaining confidence in your game. I know I beat myself up repeatedly the first couple yrs I officiated because I was not real confident of my rules knowledge/application. Keep at it, you will get there. It is good to play out scenerios, but do not go into the game looking for conflict.

[Edited by williebfree on Dec 30th, 2002 at 02:44 PM]

[Hawks Coach]

I think that there is a diffference between calling plays, yelling block out or rebound, etc. at a point in time when a player has the ball and yelling them at the time of rrelease (in order to disconcert the shooter). If they do the latter and clearly time it so that it is when the shooter is about to release the ball, call it. This is a new game - call it consistently within that game. And if you believe it is the right call, call it consistently the rest of your career.

You cannot be held to the standard of how you officiated previously. If you were held to that standard, you would never improve. If you get questioned and want to explain your new call, let them know that you thought it was wrong the last time you saw them do it, you got some clarification that your instinct was correct, and you will be calling it this way from here on in!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

No, it doesn't. Articles 1 and 2 are listed under the topic, "A player shall not violate the following provisions governing free throws."

Disconcertion is found in Article 5 and is listed under the topic. "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower: No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower."

Any opponent can be called for disconcertion.

You're right. I don't know what I was thinkin'. That's only the third mistake I've made in my entire life. I've been married twice, so you do the math.