Disconcerting

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

My attempt to improve my postings.

Had a coach of a junior high team ask me about a player yelling: "Miss It!" while A) sitting on the and B) while in the game as the FT shooter was attempting.

Under rule 9.1.c and in the case book (9.1.3), I think I can assume this is certain to be disconcerting and be called a violation.

However, can this also be call unsportinglike from the bench and issued a warning and/or a technical foul?

Any help to this coach on educating him of this rule ... thanks! Hope that was a better post.

Your a good sport Johnny. And yes, this is the kind of post I expect from a veteran official.

As for rulings. Bench personnel will get a warning the first time and a T subsequently.

[bob jenkins]

Disconcertion in both A and B.

If they don't get the message, then it continues to be disconcertion. The coach will shut them down pretty quickly.

If the first basket is made, then I'm telling them to knock it off (the exact way of delivering this will depend on the game) so they know -- they probably didn't see the extended arm.

[Johnny Ringo]

Thanks!

Much of this is what I told the coach. Just wanted to see if there was anymore that could be added ... he views this thread. So, all of your input was helpful.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Disconcertion in both A and B.

If they don't get the message, then it continues to be disconcertion. The coach will shut them down pretty quickly.

If the first basket is made, then I'm telling them to knock it off (the exact way of delivering this will depend on the game) so they know -- they probably didn't see the extended arm.

Exactly. No matter how many times he does it, it's disconcertion. It's not a technical foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Exactly. No matter how many times he does it, it's disconcertion. It's not a technical foul.

You're a good sport too.

I'm not.

If they continue to do it after being warned, I'm "T"ing 'em up in a hearbeat for unsporting behavior. If you don't, there's no use of warning them in the first place. I won't let them make a farce out of the game with repeated violations. And I've got very specific instructions from the NFHS to back me up. From the 2001-02 rule book:

POE #2 Disconcertion During Free Throw:
"The committe emphasizes that disconcertion is a violation and may result in a substitute throw. If persistent or deemed unsporting, the team/player may be penalized with a technical foul.

[Rob1968]

So, help me out. What are your limits to actions by the bench personnel during a free-throw, in regards to disconcertation? Sometimes they're just making noise, yelling "hey-ey-ey, and so forth."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're a good sport too.

I'm not.

If they continue to do it after being warned, I'm "T"ing 'em up in a hearbeat for unsporting behavior. If you don't, there's no use of warning them in the first place. I won't let them make a farce out of the game with repeated violations. And I've got very specific instructions from the NFHS to back me up. From the 2001-02 rule book:

POE #2 Disconcertion During Free Throw:
"The committe emphasizes that disconcertion is a violation and may result in a substitute throw. If persistent or deemed unsporting, the team/player may be penalized with a technical foul.

+1

"Persistent or unsporting": I treat these separately. Persistent disconcerting gets a warning. If I have to call a subsequent technical foul, it's for ignoring the warning, not the disconcertion per se.

Unsporting disconcertion would be shouting an obscenity or epithet or the like. That warrants an immediate T without warning.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're a good sport too.

I'm not.

If they continue to do it after being warned, I'm "T"ing 'em up in a hearbeat for unsporting behavior. If you don't, there's no use of warning them in the first place. I won't let them make a farce out of the game with repeated violations. And I've got very specific instructions from the NFHS to back me up. From the 2001-02 rule book:

POE #2 Disconcertion During Free Throw:
"The committe emphasizes that disconcertion is a violation and may result in a substitute throw. If persistent or deemed unsporting, the team/player may be penalized with a technical foul.

Okay, I can live with that. But posters are saying they're going to assess a T the second time it happens. I don't buy that.

I've NEVER had it more than once when calling disconcertion.

However, a don't think a POE from 2001 is very specific instruction. If this is what the NFHS wants, then it needs to appear in the rule book or case book every year.

[Johnny Ringo]

My thought on this is if it is coming from the bench a warning (along with the violation if missed) and then a second time should be a tech.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

My thought on this is if it is coming from the bench a warning (along with the violation if missed) and then a second time should be a tech.

I'm going to be a bit more deliberate on this. I don't typically give warnings for delayed violations when the shot is made. I've done it once in an AAU game (player behind the shooter yelling just as shot was taken) and the little sh1t tried to argue with me.

If they don't see (or understand) my extended arm; not my problem. If the other coach asks, I'll tell him what's going on.

If I do get the chance to call disconcertion, and they do it again from the bench, then I'll warn them. "Coach, you need to keep your bench under control before they end up costing you."

One warning only, of course.

[wizard]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Exactly. No matter how many times he does it, it's disconcertion. It's not a technical foul.

I've had this coming from the opposing coach, yelling "box out" on the first of two FTs. btw, the coach in question was also a rec official. Never worked with him before or since...

[APG]

Originally Posted by wizard

I've had this coming from the opposing coach, yelling "box out" on the first of two FTs. btw, the coach in question was also a rec official. Never worked with him before or since...

That coach knows exactly what he's doing. Just like players know exactly what they're doing when they conveniently tell each other who they have on defense while the shooter is about to shoot.