Thoughts from a coach

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

10-15 years ago officials were essentially taught to make attempts to avoid lopsided foul counts. This was done under the guise of "game management". There are still older D-1 officials who decide when the "game needs a call" or a "team needs a call", and do so. In the case of blowouts, some guys just want the game over with and others don't want to deal with calling fouls that won't affect the game. Complacency affects a lot of officials, despite the fact that few admit it. Problem is, most of the folks on this message board work very hard, so they do not get complacent very often. But it happens a lot more than you think. Watch some films.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.

Sorry JR but he is not only right, there are still some old-timers that believe this. There is a well known official in my area that preaches this all the time. That being said hardly anyone respects him anymore. I worked with this official years ago and he tried to convince me not to call a player with his 5th foul and give it to another player that was not even close or in on the play in question. But this is not taught that way by most anymore, just know where he is coming from.

Originally Posted by TheOracle

The perceptions of coaches and fans are valid. They may not always be right, or may rarely be right, but writing their opinions off, when some officials do exactly what the coaches and fans complain about, doesn't help officials as a collective group.

I could give a damn about any fans. I do not work for fans and I really do not work for any coaches. Coaches come and go more than officials do. Most coaches in a 5 year period of time will not be around anymore.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry JR but he is not only right, there are still some old-timers that believe this. There is a well known official in my area that preaches this all the time. That being said hardly anyone respects him anymore. I worked with this official years ago and he tried to convince me not to call a player with his 5th foul and give it to another player that was not even close or in on the play in question. But this is not taught that way by most anymore, just know where he is coming from.

That philosophy was never taught except for maybe by a few oddballs like the one you mentioned above. It sureasheck never was a universal philosophy. And it sureasheck wasn't and isn't accepted then or now either.

That's absolutely terrible advice by the oracle.

And as for us listening to fans? That speaks for itself imo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That philosophy was never taught except for maybe by a few oddballs like the one you mentioned above. It sureasheck never was a universal philosophy. And it sureasheck wasn't and isn't accepted then or now either.

Actually you do not really understand what I am agreeing with. I said that there are people that teach this. I did not say that it was universally accepted or that those taught to even up calls. I simply said that there are people that have taught officials to pay attention to the foul count and not allow it to get out of whack. That does not mean that is as much the case anymore, but it has happen. To say never is not true as I have heard this over the years by clinicians or trainers at camps. Officiating is never something everyone always agrees with about every philosophy. And before you get all upset, I did not say I agreed that this is correct either. Just stated I have heard this before.

Peace

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually you do not really understand what I am agreeing with. I said that there are people that teach this. I did not say that it was universally accepted or that those taught to even up calls. I simply said that there are people that have taught officials to pay attention to the foul count and not allow it to get out of whack. That does not mean that is as much the case anymore, but it has happen. To say never is not true as I have heard this over the years by clinicians or trainers at camps. Officiating is never something everyone always agrees with about every philosophy. And before you get all upset, I did not say I agreed that this is correct either. Just stated I have heard this before.

Peace

+1
Also, in some games, there will naturally be a foul disparity. For example, in a game where one team's offense focuses on perimeter passing and open jump shots, going against a team whose strategy is to dribble-drive to the basket. Everything else being equal, which team do you think is going to commit more fouls?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

+1
Also, in some games, there will naturally be a foul disparity. For example, in a game where one team's offense focuses on perimeter passing and open jump shots, going against a team whose strategy is to dribble-drive to the basket. Everything else being equal, which team do you think is going to commit more fouls?

That is why it is much more common to make sure if the foul disparity is unbalanced, know why that is the case. But that does not mean you can do much about it. Team that shoots from the outside is hardly ever going to get fouled. And I have told a coach that very thing.

Peace