Your thoughts please.

[Reffing Hoosier]

8th Grade All Star Tournament. Pool game is going just fine no complaining or even any chirping from any coaches. One team has a kid, who in his mind, never commits a foul and always gets fouled on every shot. He usually makes some whiney face but nothing I can't ignore. 1.6 seconds left this kids team is down three and have to go the length of the floor, they try to throw it deep to him, and the defender bats it down. The kid then flops as if he is trying to draw a foul. No call horn sounds game over.

Here is where the trouble starts. The kid turns to me and very plainly yells "you Suck" and then briskly walks away. I head straight for him and tell "you want to continue to play this weekend you will need to keep you mouth shut". I did not raise my voice nor seem in any way excited. At that point his coach comes charging at me and tells me to leave his player alone. I explain to him what his kid said, and his response was "he is a 14 year old kid, be the bigger man and walk away." My response back was "I did not realize you allow 14 year olds to speak to officials that way." To make a very long story shorter, I have been disturbed by this all weekend.

My question to you all is: Did i handle this ok?? Should I have just walked away from the kid?? Should i have t'd him up (which would not have hurt his status for future games)??

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Indianaref]

If I knew that a T would have hurt his status for future games, I would have T him up.

[Reffing Hoosier]

It would not hurt him in the future. only if it was his second.

[Adam]

After the game is over, if you're not going to T the kid up, leave it alone.

That said, I'd go ahead and ring him up with a T. He earned it, and whether it affects his future games is not your concern.

[Scrapper1]

Seems to me your choices are:

1) head straight for him and tell "you want to continue to play this weekend you will need to keep you mouth shut".
2) Ignore it completely.
3) Assess a post-game technical foul.

IMHO, the only one you definitely should NOT do is #1. Chasing down a kid after the game is over looks bad and can't possibly lead to anything good.

If the technical foul will matter (perhaps there's a tournament rule about accumulated T's), then give it. I have, in fact, done this myself in tournaments. Otherwise, I would probably simply ignore it.

To each his/her own, but I probably would've addressed the coach about the comment & asked that he handle it as the game was over.
Perception-wise, coach saw you chasing after his "star player" who had just suffered a loss and probably wasn't aware that such comments were made.

It sounds as if you had a few opportunities to address his unsporting behavior before it got out of hand.

He usually makes some whiney face but nothing I can't ignore.

Gestures maybe?
"Coach your player would be wise to resist from making any more gestures after my calls or lack-there-of"

I'm learning that the more vocal we are & the more prevenitive we try to be, the better our games are managed.

[Reffing Hoosier]

ch1town, I wish in hindsight I would have just adressed the coach and not the emotional player. Good learning experience for me.

[ma_ref]

Yeah, T him up or walk away. By following him and asking the kid a question, you're only exposing yourself to more potential trouble. What if the kid had replied, "F U"? Do you then give him 2 T's (1st for the "You suck", 2nd for the "F U")? In this case, the 2nd T probably could've been avoided by not talking with him.

It's a tough decision to make in this case. Walking away and doing nothing is sometimes hard to do, and almost condones the players behavior in his mind, as there were no consequences to their action. And hitting him with a T would send a message to a good coach and good parents that something is wrong with this kid, so maybe they can straighten him out at home. I've had situations where I've T'd up kids for various types of unsportsmanlike behavior, and their parents make them go up to me after the game and apologize. I've also experienced the opposite end of the spectrum of parenting where you can clearly see the bad apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

But regarding your question, if this were an isolated incident and you hadn't heard anything from the kid all game, I might just do nothing. But since you said this kid has a habit of whining and being overly dramatic, I'd respond with some post-game drama of my own and hit him with a T. But it's unfortunate, since his team lost and the free throws wouldn't affect the outcome, the other team wouldn't shoot any shots. I guess you'd just make a note in the book and move on.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Reffing Hoosier

ch1town, I wish in hindsight I would have just adressed the coach and not the emotional player. Good learning experience for me.

Yeh, with hindsight that's probably the best way.

[Junker]

An 8th grader? I'd give him at least 1 T, quite probably 2. They have to learn somewhere. Let whomever is in charge of the touranment know exactly what happened and move on from there. I wouldn't bother with the coach at all. I assume this is some sort of weekend travelling team or AAU. These coaches are often whomever has the time to drive the kids to the games. They usually do not understand the relationsip between officials, players and coaches. I wouldn't let what a child said to you bug you all weekend. You are right. he is wrong.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Reffing Hoosier

8th Grade All Star Tournament. Pool game is going just fine no complaining or even any chirping from any coaches. One team has a kid, who in his mind, never commits a foul and always gets fouled on every shot. He usually makes some whiney face but nothing I can't ignore. 1.6 seconds left this kids team is down three and have to go the length of the floor, they try to throw it deep to him, and the defender bats it down. The kid then flops as if he is trying to draw a foul. No call horn sounds game over.

Here is where the trouble starts. The kid turns to me and very plainly yells "you Suck" and then briskly walks away. I head straight for him and tell "you want to continue to play this weekend you will need to keep you mouth shut". I did not raise my voice nor seem in any way excited. At that point his coach comes charging at me and tells me to leave his player alone. I explain to him what his kid said, and his response was "he is a 14 year old kid, be the bigger man and walk away." My response back was "I did not realize you allow 14 year olds to speak to officials that way." To make a very long story shorter, I have been disturbed by this all weekend.

My question to you all is: Did i handle this ok?? Should I have just walked away from the kid?? Should i have t'd him up (which would not have hurt his status for future games)??

Any advice would be appreciated.

20-20 says that you should have dealt with this player much earlier. (Mistkae #1.) A quick note to the coach that his player is focusing on calls that aren't there would be helpful.

In addition, you ignored the player all game, then on a situation after the last past of the game, you decide to initiate a conversation and say something to him? That was mistake #2.

You have to ignore him here, or go straight to the T. However, given that you never dealt with him previously, I think you have to ignore him here too. Calling a T would only esculate the situation - the coach and player would likely (just my bet) respond that would warrant a second T, which is a huge can of worms.

In summary, I think you should have been disturbed by the events, because I think that you could have handled it better. Take a big learning experience from this: deal with a whiney kid early! In my experience, I get less than one of these types of player per season - so they're not at all common.

[Mark Padgett]

I would have gone up to the coach after the game and said, "You suck". When he started to react, I would interrupt and say, "Coach, I was just telling you what your player said to me at the end of the game. Now, I think you should say to him everything you were going to say to me."

Also, I would have made sure the player got grounded until he was 21 by his parents, became disqualified from ever getting a drivers' license and had all his scholarship offers withdrawn. I'd also make sure he had to share a room with his sister and be forced to go to Barry Manilow concerts.

There - that should be enough punishment.

[Tio]

I agree with Chitown. Why did you ignore his gestures? Addressing that may have prevented the situation at the end of the game.

I would just ignore his comments at the end of the game. If you have a good rapport with the coach, it might be worth mentioning and left to him to handle as he chooses, but I don't think a post-game T does much for the situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I would just ignore his comments at the end of the game. If you have a good rapport with the coach, it might be worth mentioning and left to him to handle as he chooses, but I don't think a post-game T does much for the situation.

Sure it does. At this level, it teaches the player that the final horn does not give him license to get stupid.

At the high school level, those Ts can add up, even without ejections. Colorado, for example, wants all Ts reported just for this reason; so they can identify repeat offenders even when they aren't getting ejected.

[Tio]

I guess we will disagree then. Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew. This situation should have been managed before the game, not after. Now if the kid chases the crew off the floor, that is a different story.