Thoughts from a coach

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

1)10-15 years ago officials were essentially taught to make attempts to avoid lopsided foul counts.

2) The perceptions of coaches and fans are valid. They may not always be right, or may rarely be right, but writing their opinions off, when some officials do exactly what the coaches and fans complain about, doesn't help officials as a collective group.

1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.

2) Oh my! We should listen to and worry about what fans think. Got it, I'll get right on that. Oh my! Un-freaking-bellievable. What next? Avoid lopsided foul counts to keep the l'il buggers happy too?


Methinks your oracling is in need of a whole bunch of work.

Lah me......

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.

2) Oh my! We should listen to and worry about what fans think. Got it, I'll get right on that. Oh my! Un-freaking-bellievable. What next? Avoid lopsided foul counts to keep the l'il buggers happy too?


Methinks your oracling is in need of a whole bunch of work.

Lah me......

Maybe he is just....Old School.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

10-15 years ago officials were essentially taught to make attempts to avoid lopsided foul counts. This was done under the guise of "game management". There are still older D-1 officials who decide when the "game needs a call" or a "team needs a call", and do so. In the case of blowouts, some guys just want the game over with and others don't want to deal with calling fouls that won't affect the game. Complacency affects a lot of officials, despite the fact that few admit it. Problem is, most of the folks on this message board work very hard, so they do not get complacent very often. But it happens a lot more than you think. Watch some films.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.

Sorry JR but he is not only right, there are still some old-timers that believe this. There is a well known official in my area that preaches this all the time. That being said hardly anyone respects him anymore. I worked with this official years ago and he tried to convince me not to call a player with his 5th foul and give it to another player that was not even close or in on the play in question. But this is not taught that way by most anymore, just know where he is coming from.

Originally Posted by TheOracle

The perceptions of coaches and fans are valid. They may not always be right, or may rarely be right, but writing their opinions off, when some officials do exactly what the coaches and fans complain about, doesn't help officials as a collective group.

I could give a damn about any fans. I do not work for fans and I really do not work for any coaches. Coaches come and go more than officials do. Most coaches in a 5 year period of time will not be around anymore.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry JR but he is not only right, there are still some old-timers that believe this. There is a well known official in my area that preaches this all the time. That being said hardly anyone respects him anymore. I worked with this official years ago and he tried to convince me not to call a player with his 5th foul and give it to another player that was not even close or in on the play in question. But this is not taught that way by most anymore, just know where he is coming from.

That philosophy was never taught except for maybe by a few oddballs like the one you mentioned above. It sureasheck never was a universal philosophy. And it sureasheck wasn't and isn't accepted then or now either.

That's absolutely terrible advice by the oracle.

And as for us listening to fans? That speaks for itself imo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That philosophy was never taught except for maybe by a few oddballs like the one you mentioned above. It sureasheck never was a universal philosophy. And it sureasheck wasn't and isn't accepted then or now either.

Actually you do not really understand what I am agreeing with. I said that there are people that teach this. I did not say that it was universally accepted or that those taught to even up calls. I simply said that there are people that have taught officials to pay attention to the foul count and not allow it to get out of whack. That does not mean that is as much the case anymore, but it has happen. To say never is not true as I have heard this over the years by clinicians or trainers at camps. Officiating is never something everyone always agrees with about every philosophy. And before you get all upset, I did not say I agreed that this is correct either. Just stated I have heard this before.

Peace

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually you do not really understand what I am agreeing with. I said that there are people that teach this. I did not say that it was universally accepted or that those taught to even up calls. I simply said that there are people that have taught officials to pay attention to the foul count and not allow it to get out of whack. That does not mean that is as much the case anymore, but it has happen. To say never is not true as I have heard this over the years by clinicians or trainers at camps. Officiating is never something everyone always agrees with about every philosophy. And before you get all upset, I did not say I agreed that this is correct either. Just stated I have heard this before.

Peace

+1
Also, in some games, there will naturally be a foul disparity. For example, in a game where one team's offense focuses on perimeter passing and open jump shots, going against a team whose strategy is to dribble-drive to the basket. Everything else being equal, which team do you think is going to commit more fouls?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

+1
Also, in some games, there will naturally be a foul disparity. For example, in a game where one team's offense focuses on perimeter passing and open jump shots, going against a team whose strategy is to dribble-drive to the basket. Everything else being equal, which team do you think is going to commit more fouls?

That is why it is much more common to make sure if the foul disparity is unbalanced, know why that is the case. But that does not mean you can do much about it. Team that shoots from the outside is hardly ever going to get fouled. And I have told a coach that very thing.

Peace

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1)

2) Oh my! We should listen to and worry about what fans think. Got it, I'll get right on that. Oh my! Un-freaking-bellievable. What next? Avoid lopsided foul counts to keep the l'il buggers happy too?


Methinks your oracling is in need of a whole bunch of work.

Lah me......

No, nice word parsing. Coaches and fans know when calls do not fit the game at all. I want most of my whistles to be for obvious reasons. The crew on the Kentucky game will get savaged for that call/T at the end of the first half, and rightly so. The MSU coach will insist on it, and get it.

I watch older clinicians talk about foul count perceptions every summer. The 45 and under crowd pretty much leans towards robotic science, but many of the older officials still consider coach perceptions, foul counts, and "game management". I was never a big fan of that, despite being well over 45. Sometimes, it hurt me, too, because I had to adjust my personal philosophies to align better on some crews.

Keep on living in that black and white world.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

No, nice word parsing. Coaches and FANS know when calls do not fit the game at all. I want most of my whistles to be for obvious reasons.

IKeep on living in that black and white world.

I don't have to parse these words. They speak for themselves. I'm completely different than you. I want as many of my calls as possible to be right and I don't give a damn what coaches and especially fans think of my calls. Imo you should grow some cojones and just call the damn game and say t'hell with the coaches and fans and quit worrying about what they think.

Keep on living in a fantasy world.