Thoughts from a coach

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no time frame (and no need for one), but you should make a call like that immediately or ASAP. It looks bad if you make the call then change it.

Peace

Yep, you probably have until the point where you're reporting the foul to do it. But even then, you're going to take some extra heat if you didn't give the Int. signal as a prelim.

[APG]

Originally Posted by stir22

is there a time limit on upgrading a personal foul to an intentional? i had a brutal game last saturday, boys jv where the foul was hard...double bonus situation. during the second thought i was wondering to myself if i should have called intentional. looking back, i know i should have.

I would say realistically up until the time you report the foul, you can decide to upgrade the foul. In most cases though, we want to get that intentional almost immediately.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That philosophy was never taught except for maybe by a few oddballs like the one you mentioned above. It sureasheck never was a universal philosophy. And it sureasheck wasn't and isn't accepted then or now either.

Actually you do not really understand what I am agreeing with. I said that there are people that teach this. I did not say that it was universally accepted or that those taught to even up calls. I simply said that there are people that have taught officials to pay attention to the foul count and not allow it to get out of whack. That does not mean that is as much the case anymore, but it has happen. To say never is not true as I have heard this over the years by clinicians or trainers at camps. Officiating is never something everyone always agrees with about every philosophy. And before you get all upset, I did not say I agreed that this is correct either. Just stated I have heard this before.

Peace

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by stir22

is there a time limit on upgrading a personal foul to an intentional? i had a brutal game last saturday, boys jv where the foul was hard...double bonus situation. during the second thought i was wondering to myself if i should have called intentional. looking back, i know i should have.

We had a transition play with a double whistle. IMO, it looked bad from my angle but didn't know if the severity had 'risen to the level of intentional' so my partner and I huddled and agreed that it did so we "Upgraded". What you NEVER want to do is "Downgrade". Took less then a minute. HOpe that helps

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by stir22

is there a time limit on upgrading a personal foul to an intentional? i had a brutal game last saturday, boys jv where the foul was hard...double bonus situation. during the second thought i was wondering to myself if i should have called intentional. looking back, i know i should have.

Calling it now is probably too late.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

We had a transition play with a double whistle. IMO, it looked bad from my angle but didn't know if the severity had 'risen to the level of intentional' so my partner and I huddled and agreed that it did so we "Upgraded". What you NEVER want to do is "Downgrade". Took less then a minute. HOpe that helps

Excellent advice!

Of course, the guy that provided info is gonna be crucified for "changing the other guys call" but thats why we get the big bucks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

Excellent advice!

Of course, the guy that provided info is gonna be crucified for "changing the other guys call" but thats why we get the big bucks.

Not necessarily. Just tell the coach we discussed it to make sure we had the same thing, then move on. This is not something you should spend a lot of time worrying about in my opinion. If your judgment is good there is not going to be much delay on this call anyway.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not necessarily. Just tell the coach we discussed it to make sure we had the same thing, then move on. This is not something you should spend a lot of time worrying about in my opinion. If your judgment is good there is not going to be much delay on this call anyway. Peace

True! More often than not, I hear the "you cant change his call" routine on upgrades though.

"Coach, your reputation preceeds you & I know you dont teach or condone that type of defense" generally counters it though.
Ahh the game within the game.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually you do not really understand what I am agreeing with. I said that there are people that teach this. I did not say that it was universally accepted or that those taught to even up calls. I simply said that there are people that have taught officials to pay attention to the foul count and not allow it to get out of whack. That does not mean that is as much the case anymore, but it has happen. To say never is not true as I have heard this over the years by clinicians or trainers at camps. Officiating is never something everyone always agrees with about every philosophy. And before you get all upset, I did not say I agreed that this is correct either. Just stated I have heard this before.

Peace

+1
Also, in some games, there will naturally be a foul disparity. For example, in a game where one team's offense focuses on perimeter passing and open jump shots, going against a team whose strategy is to dribble-drive to the basket. Everything else being equal, which team do you think is going to commit more fouls?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

+1
Also, in some games, there will naturally be a foul disparity. For example, in a game where one team's offense focuses on perimeter passing and open jump shots, going against a team whose strategy is to dribble-drive to the basket. Everything else being equal, which team do you think is going to commit more fouls?

That is why it is much more common to make sure if the foul disparity is unbalanced, know why that is the case. But that does not mean you can do much about it. Team that shoots from the outside is hardly ever going to get fouled. And I have told a coach that very thing.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

if each official is correct 95% of the time, that's means he's missed 5% of the calls....right?
5% incorrect X 3 officials = 15%.....

is this the same level-headed, clear-thinking judgement that you demonstrate on the floor?

i can now see why you quickly dismiss feedback/comments from others....BECAUSE IT MUST HAPPEN ALL THE TIME!!!

Are you frickin' serious?

Official A: 95 calls right 5 wrong
Official B: 95 calls right 5 wrong
Official C: 95 calls right 5 wrong

That's 285 correct and 15 wrong. That still equals 95% correct and 5% wrong.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The problem is 99% of fans don't know jack about the rules, and even less about officiating.

Well, that means 1% do. So after you do 100 games that means number of fans who know the rules will now be at 100%

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, that means 1% do. So after you do 100 games that means number of fans who know the rules will now be at 100%

Maybe, but 15% will still be wrong.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe, but 15% will still be wrong.

Yes, but which 15%?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe, but 15% will still be wrong.

Now we are caught in the statistical conundrum. Again.