I'm thinking about giving it up.

[just another ref]

A word about 3 versus 2. Nobody who has ever called a game would argue the fact that 3 officials, properly trained, can call a game better than 2. But there are many more factors to consider. Comparing most high schools to anything at the professional or collegiate levels is not realistic. Many numbers have been quoted that the total added expense would only be X amount per season, but the fact is, that X amount is sometimes a significant amount to a small school. Is a better officiating job worth X amount? Many schools quickly say no. Our association has only one school that uses 3 man. This means that the system is not at all familiar or comfortable to most of us. When you call 100 games 2 man, then 1 game 3 man, is the quality of the job any better? Sometimes probably not. Finally, consider the school, regardless of size, which for whatever reason, simply had really bad basketball teams. They know that most nights, not only will they not win, but most nights it will not be close. Are these schools anxious to provide a 3rd set of eyes to watch blowouts? NO. All things considered, all 3 man for high school ball is something that will probably never happen.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by just another ref

All things considered, all 3 man for high school ball is something that will probably never happen.

Our boys association, here in WA, does all 3 whistle for all levels, Frosh, Soph, JV, and V...for all sizes of schools, from the smallest to the largest.

MS is two whistle.

Might be overkill...but, we get up and coming officials that know how to officiate 3 whistle.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by ThatOneRef

lol, do you not get it? IT IS A FORUM!!!!! NOT A COLLEGE TERM PAPER!!!!! Spelling and grammar DOSNT HAVE TO BE CORRECT!!! THATS WHY IT IS CORRECT!!!!! LOL
/end troll

New guy, it's real simple. Just because it's on an internet forum, doesn't mean that spelling and grammar by rule must go out the window. Every board sets its own parameters for vernacular. This board, through tradition sets an expectation for reasonable grammar and best effort spelling. If you don't, you will be called out for it. if you don't like it, tough, go start your own board. If you don't understand all that, then you have removed all doubt that you're an idiot.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Our boys association, here in WA, does all 3 whistle for all levels, Frosh, Soph, JV, and V...for all sizes of schools, from the smallest to the largest.

MS is two whistle.

Might be overkill...but, we get up and coming officials that know how to officiate 3 whistle.

In some situations it's better from the table, that there is the extra official to watch for dead ball signals.

Plus, from what I've noticed, there's a higher chance of better calls which equals out to better play.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I just heard a rumor (which I believe, BTW), that our biggest conference in the area (that produces more than its share of D-1 players) is planning on going back to 2-person in 2012-13. That would mean all of our area conferences would be back to 2-person for conference play.

I was really expecting that by now we'd be 3-person across the board. I worked 2 big schools BV (2-person) on Saturday and I worked harder than I've ever worked -- working the perimeter as the trail and at times flying all out up and down the court. I thought my partner and I did a pretty damned nice job during the game and we got a fair number of compliments from some assignors and former assignors who were in attendance, but I'm reaching the point where I do not want to settle with a 2-person crew working these games anymore.

So I wonder if it's time to simply work football and baseball and take November through March off. It's something I'll really be thinking about this off-season.

I have contracts through 2012-13 (in some conferences) and I'll honor those, so I have another 2 years of games, but if I decide to pack it in I simply won't accept any more contracts.

The basketball community would be without a great asset if you do decide to hang up your whistle.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ThatOneRef

LOL! talk all the sh*t you want guys. I LOVE IT! LOL. There are NO 3 man crews in Oregon at the time, all high school games are 2 man crews, j.v. as well as varsity. A 2 man crew is just fine for ANY basketball game, yes a 3 man crew is easier (for you old men out there) but 2 is just as good, you can see everything just fine (unless you wear old man glasses), and the game will go just as fast as a 3 man crew. Besides the economy is in the hole, i don't see y'all 3 manning crews much longer.
ANd as for reffing circles around me, me being an "idiot" (quote from some of you) and all you others that are talking it up. keep it coming old men! I encourage a little bit of sh*t talk! (kinda what the 1st post was for) ><

This guy obviously isn't an official. He's just an @ss clown that stopped by to cause trouble. Bob, I hope you're working with Brad on getting rid of him.

[Terrance "TJ"]

That's tough Rich. Hope it turns out for the best for you and fellow officials up there. I understand both points of view, esp. if their side is heavily rooted in the $$ aspect.
My association generally covers small schools/districts. But the state has said all varsity is 3-man reg. and post season. Sub varsity and Jr. High are done with two. In CO, CHSAA states (bear with me, might not be 100% accurate #s) that all Jr. High games are $30-35 a game, frosh(C team)/jv are $40-45 and varsity is $60-70. (I haven't done anything above Jr. High at the moment due to my injury so those #s might not be spot on.) CHSAA allows mileage for games 35-40+ miles from the drivers home, only driver gets mileage checks, and I can't remember if its $/mi. or a flat rate.
And, coming from a young official, both in age and exp., the very little 3-man exposure I had doing a scrimmage, I can see the benefits so much more than just having two bodies out there for any level contest. I'm a small guy, I'm more built for one person sports, and having teenage boys being inches to a foot plus over me and a few pounds more than me, I would sure as heck want four more eyes on the court than just two. I am fast and was blessed with incredible fast twitch muscle ability and incredible recovery time, but I've got fellow officials in my association that are twice my age and can keep up with me on the court. Age has no bearing on physical fitness, if you keep your body in shape and mind sharp, age becomes a non issue. The place age will get you is in the experience and exposure. Coaches will want you (we have schools draft 2 of the 3 for their games here) if they know you and know you know what you are doing before they will want the younger guy they don't don't know squat about.
And, to add my $0.02 here on the spelling/grammar comments... I'm part of the Digital Generation/Generation Y but I will always despise the butchering the English language has taken. I always fully type out my words, and especially in a forum where I'm relatively new/unknown, minimize my slang/emoticons, because this is written communication. You can not tell the person's intent much like you can with face to face interaction.
Anywho....I'm done.

[Adam]

T, I'm not aware that CHSAA regulates ms games at all, for one. When I was on the western slope a few years ago, we were getting 12.50 per ms game. I did that for one season, it wasn't worth getting off of work early to work them.

As for mileage, I don't think CHSAA regulates who may pay it and who can't. I know here we get mileage for many games that are closer than your noted range. Those that work in the two major metro areas get a $2 travel stipend per trip; when we go outside our metro area (outlying towns), we get mileage. Whether it's 15 miles or 50 miles, we get it.

Frosh and JV pay the same here, also, except there's a 3-man discount for JV. I couldn't tell you the exact rates this year, though, due to my own injury.

[Terrance "TJ"]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

T, I'm not aware that CHSAA regulates ms games at all, for one. When I was on the western slope a few years ago, we were getting 12.50 per ms game. I did that for one season, it wasn't worth getting off of work early to work them.

As for mileage, I don't think CHSAA regulates who may pay it and who can't. I know here we get mileage for many games that are closer than your noted range. Those that work in the two major metro areas get a $2 travel stipend per trip; when we go outside our metro area (outlying towns), we get mileage. Whether it's 15 miles or 50 miles, we get it.

12.50? How did they get those games covered? Last season I was getting 70-75 for doing two games. Heck, there's a local rec tourney this weekend, 2-6 grade, and they are even offering $20 a game. Maybe its what our association has negotiated with the schools around here on the MS game rates. I know I read it, rates/mileage, somewhere online but with my luck, I'm not finding it at the moment. I'm thinking the mileage distance is smaller than that... I traveled 20 mi. one way and my partner was saying I could probably be getting mileage as well as game $.

Hope ya heal up, riding the pine is starting to irritate me.

Ah, I just found the mileage....its on the bright pink packet that was sent out by CHSAA; Its $ per mi. and it was increased from .29 to .36 starting the '09-10 season and its for anything traveled more than 20 miles one way. I think that rate was the same for this season as well.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Terrance "TJ"

12.50? How did they get those games covered? Last season I was getting 70-75 for doing two games. Heck, there's a local rec tourney this weekend, 2-6 grade, and they are even offering $20 a game. Maybe its what our association has negotiated with the schools around here on the MS game rates. I know I read it, rates/mileage, somewhere online but with my luck, I'm not finding it at the moment. I'm thinking the mileage distance is smaller than that... I traveled 20 mi. one way and my partner was saying I could probably be getting mileage as well as game $.

Hope ya heal up, riding the pine is starting to irritate me.

Yeah, I think they increased it to $15 my second year, but I was getting $37.50 for a triple header on tartan floors. No idea how they covered them, but let's just say some of my partners weren't exactly IAABO certified. Some career ms refs mixed in with a few IAABO guys who just liked to work.

As for mileage, I'm sure it's all about your local association's agreement with the schools; just like any pay above and beyond the state minimums.

Yeah, this season has sucked. Getting those emails, "need someone to cover these games on this date" hasn't helped either.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Terrance "TJ"

12.50? How did they get those games covered? Last season I was getting 70-75 for doing two games. Heck, there's a local rec tourney this weekend, 2-6 grade, and they are even offering $20 a game. Maybe its what our association has negotiated with the schools around here on the MS game rates. I know I read it, rates/mileage, somewhere online but with my luck, I'm not finding it at the moment. I'm thinking the mileage distance is smaller than that... I traveled 20 mi. one way and my partner was saying I could probably be getting mileage as well as game $.

Hope ya heal up, riding the pine is starting to irritate me.

On the other side of the bay from me there is a middle school league that is paying 53/game for DHs. Heard they have NCAA guys stepping all over each other to volunteer for those games.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

On the other side of the bay from me there is a middle school league that is paying 53/game for DHs. Heard they have NCAA guys stepping all over each other to volunteer for those games.

Great, POI for middle school technical fouls.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

On the other side of the bay from me there is a middle school league that is paying 53/game for DHs. Heard they have NCAA guys stepping all over each other to volunteer for those games.

Well, maybe they aren't volunteering.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by ThatOneRef

There are NO 3 man crews in Oregon at the time, all high school games are 2 man crews, j.v. as well as varsity. A 2 man crew is just fine for ANY basketball game, yes a 3 man crew is easier (for you old men out there) but 2 is just as good, you can see everything just fine (unless you wear old man glasses), and the game will go just as fast as a 3 man crew.

Having moved from Oregon to Texas recently, this is very twisted logic from someone who clearly has only ever worked in the 2-man system, and likely not at a very high level. Certainly 2-man is just fine for the middle school games this person likely works. I didn't know what the big deal was about 3-man until I moved to Texas and started using 3-man mechanics. I was really shocked at just how much better it is. If you are in a place that only uses 2-man and you're not a college official, you wouldn't know how much better 3-man is.

In addition, the quality of basketball is remarkably better here in Texas than it is in Oregon - certainly on the men's side. Using 2-man for the state ranked programs would be a mess. They are simply too fast and too skilled to be able to call a quality game with 2-man. I'm sure that's also the case in most major metro areas in the country.

[IowaMike]

The game has changed since I started officiating and isn't even close to the game I played back in the dark ages of the 70's. Players are much more athletic and as I said earlier I would have no desire to go back to working varsity games with two officials; it's tough enough working soph boys games with two.

I did a 7th grade boys game a few nights ago. One of the teams had a kid who was almost my height, maybe 6'0 or 6'1. At one point he got a steal and an easy breakaway to the basket and dunked the ball. I've never seen a dunk at that level before but he did it pretty easily, and this is Iowa, not Chicago, L.A. or some other major city. I had another official tell me that he had an 8th grader dunk one earlier this year. When I played in 7th grade a guy who could touch the bottom of the net was considered a good leaper.