I'm thinking about giving it up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I figured up the 2 vs. 3 money difference for an average school here.

11 home games x 2 (Girls and Boys). Mileage not counted because it shouldn't be any different.

2-Man = $220 per night x 22 nights = $4,840

3-Man = $330 per night x 22 nights = $7,260

$2,420 difference. That is property taxes on about two houses around here. It looks like a lot, but it's pretty negligible.

You get paid the same for 2 vs 3?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You get paid the same for 2 vs 3?

Yep, although there are very few 3-man games around here. There are two conferences with all Class 4 or 5 schools (Biggest classes), and one of them mandates 3-man for all JV/V nights in either girls or boys. The other was doing this for several years but has decided to make it optional now, so only a few do it for all games, and some only do it for "big" games.

Sometimes three of us will get assigned to a 9th/JV/V night or a BJV/BV/GV tripleheader at a small school. Usually we split it up and all work two games, but sometimes guys will work 3-man all night and split the game fees up three ways. You make less but it makes for an easier night.

I would love it if we got paid a bit more to work 2-man varsity games (Maybe $60 or so) and kept the 3-man rate at $55.

I am for 3-man as much as anyone, but it is not needed for some levels of varsity around here. Most Class 1 and 2 games here do not need three officials. I'll let you figure out why.

[IowaMike]

Originally Posted by DesMoines

Not in the Bluegrass, NCC, Raccoon, HOI or any place else I've been this year.

Anybody else, Iowans?

I don't know of anyone working two person for varsity games in Iowa. In addition to the MAC in the Quad Cities, I work a lot of games in smaller 1A and 2A conferences and it's always three person and you do a doubleheader, usually boy/girl varsity. The pay disparity is huge though; you get $75 for a single varsity game in the MAC (4A conference), but generally only $75 or $80 to do two games at the smaller schools, plus mileage for one driver. I sometimes wonder why I"m making a three hour round trip for that much money some nights when I could work one soph game at one of the big 4A schools 5 or 10 minutes from my house for $55 and be home by 7:30. I don't do it primarily for the money, but getting home at 11:00 or 12:00 on a work night for an extra $20 doesn't always feel like it's worth it. Ego I guess, or pure insanity.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I figured up the 2 vs. 3 money difference for an average school here.

11 home games x 2 (Girls and Boys). Mileage not counted because it shouldn't be any different.

2-Man = $220 per night x 22 nights = $4,840

3-Man = $330 per night x 22 nights = $7,260

$2,420 difference. That is property taxes on about two houses around here. It looks like a lot, but it's pretty negligible.

I'm not sure your math is right and I think you should divide those totals by 2....a team only plays half their games at home (you mention that but don't seem to use it in your math). A different team would be covering the other 11 games. (Or each team is covering half of the total each night).

Or are you saying a referee gets $110 per game? Or is that for a JV/V double header where the JV would get the same crew?

In Oregon, the rate comes out to about $60-$65 for most games (once mileage is included) for 2-person. That would be $120-$130 per game per crew. For about 11 games per gender, that is $2860. That would lead to an increase of $1430 per school to add a 3rd official for ALL varsity games for each season (if you still payed each official at the same rate...which is rarely the case in places that use a 3rd).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not sure your math is right and I think you should divide those totals by 2....a team only plays half their games at home (you mention that but don't seem to use it in your math). A different team would be covering the other 11 games. (Or each team is covering half of the total each night).

Or are you saying a referee gets $110 per game? Or is that for a JV/V double header where the JV would get the same crew?

Could be 11 boys' + 11 girls' games = 22 games.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not sure your math is right and I think you should divide those totals by 2....a team only plays half their games at home (you mention that but don't seem to use it in your math). A different team would be covering the other 11 games. (Or each team is covering half of the total each night).

Or are you saying a referee gets $110 per game? Or is that for a JV/V double header where the JV would get the same crew?

In Oregon, the rate comes out to about $60-$65 for most games (once mileage is included) for 2-person. That would be $120-$130 per game per crew. For about 11 games per gender, that is $2860. That would lead to an increase of $1430 per school to add a 3rd official for ALL varsity games for each season (if you still payed each official at the same rate...which is rarely the case in places that use a 3rd).

Assuming you'd work 3-whistle for $55 per game, they're saving a whopping total of $35 per game, or $770 per year per school (assuming 22 varsity home games per school).

[LeeBallanfant]

When the switch to three whistles was being discussed in my area many years ago, one administrator said " I am all for three whistles at the game...and after the game the coaches can vote on which two of the officials get paid."

[26 Year Gap]

What amazes me is that states want 3 whistles in the playoffs but schools do not realize the huge differences in coverage areas and quality. To go from 2 to 3 in a DH often means I miss some areas early in the second game. Maybe they should play with 4 players during the regular season and then use five in the playoffs.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm in the minority on this topic. I prefer the 2-man system for basketball. More to do both physically and mentally, which makes the game more engaging and exciting for the official.

Agree. And don't forget challenging.

That's my personnel opinion regarding how I like to work. That being said, the modern high school game is much better officiated by three officials. That's why, here in Connecticut, we go to three person crews from the state quarterfinals, on up; for many league, or conference finals; and for a few "big city" rivalry games.

As many of you know from my postings, the Land of Steady Habits, is, pretty much, exceptions above, the Land of the Two Person Game. Even if school superintendents, principals, athletic directors, and coaches, wanted to go to three person games, and had the money available, we wouldn't have enough officials to work said games. As it is, we have trouble covering busy Friday night schedules with two person crews, especially when we have more than just a few officials unavailable due to injury, or illness.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by zm1283

$2,420 difference. That is property taxes on about two houses around here. It looks like a lot, but it's pretty negligible.

Things are getting so bad around here, along with paying taxes and theh obligatory fund raisers, some school districts are now charging $50 for the privilege of having your kid play sports and THEN don't forget to pay your admission fee to get in to watch them in the game.......

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Could be 11 boys' + 11 girls' games = 22 games.

@ $110 per game? I think he double counted them....either in number of games or in the dollar amount.,

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Things are getting so bad around here, along with paying taxes and theh obligatory fund raisers, some school districts are now charging $50 for the privilege of having your kid play sports and THEN don't forget to pay your admission fee to get in to watch them in the game.......

That's cheap.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Things are getting so bad around here, along with paying taxes and the obligatory fund raisers, some school districts are now charging $50 for the privilege of having your kid play sports.

Here in The Constitution State, we call it, "Pay and Play".

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

In Socal...2 man at both JV and V...2 man even in playoffs and 3 man ONLY in last 2 rounds of the PLAYOFFS.

All about the $$$$$!

Same in my state.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ThatOneRef

Seems like you guys are just getting OLD, maybe let these YOUNG refs in that can "RUN" or be "mentally" able to handle a 2 man game. (not that hard....) I don't see any reason to have 3 officials. If the TWO officials are "on the same page" (so to speak) then they should be MORE than adequate.

I'm about 100% sure I can referee circles around you.