What kind of foul is this?

[Illini_Ref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Don't have my books with me, but is what you just said in the book? Because simultaneously does not mean "approximately the same time" - it means "the same time".

NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.

[Smitty]

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

[Illini_Ref]

The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.

I personally think that is reading a lot into the play when from all previous information from the NF that they have always given those as an example of things that happen at the same time. Not we call a foul, then call another foul as a result of the first action. That sounds like a stretch of what the rules says. Maybe they could clarify, but these should like events that happen one after the other.

Just as I said this, HB responded to me.

Peace

[Illini_Ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I personally think that is reading a lot into the play when from all previous information from the NF that they have always given those as an example of things that happen at the same time. Not we call a foul, then call another foul as a result of the first action. That sounds like a stretch of what the rules says. Maybe they could clarify, but these should like events that happen one after the other.

Still waiting on HB BTW.

Peace

100% agree.

Maybe an official interp from the Federation would be in order. Or maybe change the rule and always shoot all technicals in the order they occur then go to POI.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

100% agree.

Maybe an official interp from the Federation would be in order. Or maybe change the rule and always shoot all technicals in the order they occur then go to POI.

Check your PM over "there" and I sent you the email response.

Peace

[Illini_Ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Check your PM over "there" and I sent you the email response.

Peace

Got it. Thanks.

Over "there". That is a good way to describe that place at times.

[eyezen]

Can you give us some background on the game?

[Illini_Ref]

The game had the situation described in the original post.

I'm not sure how it was handled, but it prompted a question about it to a local veteran official and rules "guru". He thought and thought and finally called our state association. His quandary was what does app. the same time mean.

His answer from them was that there was nothing in the rules or interps to answer that question. The lady there said that she was fine with saying it was "app. the same time" in this situation until the first technical was reported.

That makes this a simultaneous technical. No FTs and the ball at POI which is the FTs for the first personal foul.

I don't necessarily agree and there was no "official" interp given. It was strictly a meeting of the minds on the phone.

I think that you could go with a false double T and back it by rule. I also think that with her explanation you could go with a simultaneous situation.

It's all how you articulate it to the coach really.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

The game had the situation described in the original post.

I meant more as a who what when where.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.

Yeah, but simultaneous is usually when we cannot determine which took place first or last. This is not the case here as the officials did not call them at the same time in this play. A1 reacted to the T being given. I cannot see how we can make this simultaneous.

Peace