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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 03:39pm
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Even if you give up "approximately the same time," which is debatable, the fouls were not committed by the opponents against each other. No way is this a double T.
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Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 03:46pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Even if you give up "approximately the same time," which is debatable, the fouls were not committed by the opponents against each other. No way is this a double T.
But is does make then simultaneous technicals which are simply technicals on each team at "app. the same time".

Enforcement is the same as a double T.
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Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 04:15pm
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Originally Posted by Illini_Ref View Post
But is does make then simultaneous technicals which are simply technicals on each team at "app. the same time".

Enforcement is the same as a double T.
Don't have my books with me, but is what you just said in the book? Because simultaneously does not mean "approximately the same time" - it means "the same time".
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Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 04:23pm
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
Don't have my books with me, but is what you just said in the book? Because simultaneously does not mean "approximately the same time" - it means "the same time".
NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.
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Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 04:25pm
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Fair enough. I stand corrected.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 04:29pm
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The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.
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Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 04:34pm
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Originally Posted by Illini_Ref View Post
The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.
I personally think that is reading a lot into the play when from all previous information from the NF that they have always given those as an example of things that happen at the same time. Not we call a foul, then call another foul as a result of the first action. That sounds like a stretch of what the rules says. Maybe they could clarify, but these should like events that happen one after the other.

Just as I said this, HB responded to me.

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Old Tue Feb 08, 2011, 04:29pm
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Originally Posted by Illini_Ref View Post
NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.
Yeah, but simultaneous is usually when we cannot determine which took place first or last. This is not the case here as the officials did not call them at the same time in this play. A1 reacted to the T being given. I cannot see how we can make this simultaneous.

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